Transcript - Women’s Leadership in Fashion

Joshua Williams: [00:00:00] Retail Revolution, a unique podcast that features in depth conversations with guest experts in omni-channel retailing with myriad perspectives, technology, consumer engagement, data analytics, merchandising, and more. We pay special attention to current sociopolitical issues and challenges and their implications on fashion retail as well as opportunities to innovate and rethink retail's future. Visit us RetailRevolutionPodcast.com. For more information, including full transcripts and follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn at retail revolution podcast, retail revolution is produced by Joshua Williams and hosted by Christopher Lacy.

Both are assistant professors in the Fashion Management graduate program at Parsons School of Design. 

Maria Soubbotina: [00:00:46] Hello, and welcome to another episode of Retail Revolution podcast. This is a special edition of Retail Revolution. And I'm your host Maria Soubboutina. And today's guest is Natalie O'Neal it fellow graduate student in the Fashion Management program at the Parsons School of Design.

Natalie, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Natalie O'Neal: [00:01:18] Hi. Well, first of all, thank you for inviting me to be on here. So like you said, I'm a graduate student in the fashion management program at Parsons School of Design. I'm born and raised in Austin. So that's where I am right now. I have a degree from Texas State University in fashion merchandising, and I'm currently working as a merchandising assistant for a production and video game company in Austin called Rooster Teeth. So yeah, I'm getting started in the industry. 

Maria Soubbotina: [00:01:50] Amazing. So you're doing your capstone project on women in leadership positions. Can you tell us a little bit about that and why you specifically chose that topic? 

Natalie O'Neal: [00:01:59] Yeah, so I've always noticed growing up and as I'm entering the industry, that when you look around at CEOs.

Not only in the fashion industry, but everywhere you see men and usually old white men. So it's always bothered me. So I really wanted to dig into why that is and try and figure out if there's anything we can do about that and how we can get more women in those roles. 

Maria Soubbotina: [00:02:30] Definitely. So from your research, what do you think are some barriers that stand in the way of women and leadership roles?

Natalie O'Neal: [00:02:37] So definitely stigma and stereotypes they exist, unfortunately. But what I found is that starting families is actually one of the major factors in the lack of women in leadership roles, specifically in the fashion industry. I mean, women dominate the retail jobs and they dominate the fashion schools. But when you climb the ladder to C-suite, there's less and less women.

And unfortunately, It's hard for women to continue climbing that ladder. Once they start having kids and having their families, because, you know, women, it falls in their laps. Most of the time, taking care of the kids and having to find that balance work and personal lives and kids it's, it's hard. There aren't many resources out there and the resources that are out there, maybe aren't as easy for a lot of women to take advantage of. So just getting more resources out there for new mothers is really important. And I think that would definitely increase the amount of women in C-suite positions. 

Maria Soubbotina: [00:03:48] For sure. And are there certain taboos you've noticed or you think women face, whether that be as leaders or as both leaders and mothers?

Natalie O'Neal: [00:03:57] Yeah. So unfortunately stigma exists when it comes to women in the workplace and it gets worse when women have kids. Because you know, there's always going to be snarky comments like, oh yeah, she has kids. So she probably will miss this meeting because she has to take her kid to childcare, to daycare and that exists and it holds women back.

It's a lot of women, they lose opportunities for promotions because there's a stigma that they're going to miss work because they have kids. But when you think about it, if there were more resources, like if there was daycare provided at the job, then that wouldn't be an issue and women could have that promotion and still maintain their career and their kids.

Maria Soubbotina: [00:04:44] Definitely. And I know you did a lot of research on maternity and paternity leave this semester. Can you share some key facts that stood out to you that you think more people should know about or would be surprised by? 

Natalie O'Neal: [00:04:56] Yeah. So one thing that stood out to me was the fact that the United States is one of eight in the world and the only O E C D country without a national paid parental leave policy.

That to me is just crazy. I mean, we're the United States and we don't have paid leave.  And another crazy number is that only 16% of private industry workers have access to any type of paid maternity leave. And that's a very small percentage. I mean, when you think about how many employees are out there in this world or in this country; it's crazy to think that only 16% have access to paid leave.

Maria Soubbotina: [00:05:38] Yeah, it's definitely a really crazy fact. And so shocking to think about. I know there's research that suggests that 41 women led fortune 500 companies in the first quarter of 2021; ten of which led retailers. Do you think we'll see more women in leadership roles as time progresses? 

Natalie O'Neal: [00:05:56] So unfortunately with the pandemic in the past year, there has been a disturbing amount of women leaving the workforce, because like I mentioned earlier, unfortunately, the burden of taking care of kids and dealing with all that falls on women.

So a lot of women unfortunately left the workforce last year. But I think the pandemic also helped everybody realize that family is most important. And people are realizing that it's important that we shouldn't have to choose between our jobs and our families.

So I'm hoping that we have realized over the past year, and we prioritize in the future, that we need to be able to create that balance between families and jobs. 

Maria Soubbotina: [00:06:42] For sure. And are there like particular actions you think companies should be taking now to make that future a reality? 

Natalie O'Neal: [00:06:49] Yeah. So, one thing that really fascinated me with my research, and one thing that I really hope to see here in this country, a lot more, is "keep in touch" programs. So "keep in touch" programs, allow women when they're on maternity leave to hire a temporary employee to fill their position. And that person will keep them up to date with projects and everything that's going on with work.

So they don't really miss out on as much, and it's a much easier transition when they come back to work and this would save mothers so much time trying to get back into their jobs and stress. And also, actually one thing that maybe a lot of people don't realize, is that companies, they spend so much money on operations costs trying to replace women when they leave, when they have kids.

And it, it really, it costs a lot of time, money and stress on everybody. So these "keep in touch" programs; it would just be easier for everybody. So, and it already exists in a lot of other countries, like in Canada, this is really common where they hire temp maternity people. And they come in and fill in the position and I wish we could see that here. 

Maria Soubbotina: [00:08:07] Yeah. Agreed. And are there specific ways that you haven't already mentioned in which companies lack in resources for new parents right now? I know how you said before, there's of course, companies who don't provide maternity or paternity leave, but is there anything else, additionally, that you've also observed.

Natalie O'Neal: [00:08:23] Yeah. So one thing that I was reading about, and it's really interesting, and I would like to dig in deeper is breastfeeding. How, when women, when they don't have a maternity leave or a paid leave and they feel pressure that they need to get back to work. So they quit breastfeeding, which might not seem like that big of a deal. But actually when you look at health and data breastfeeding helps babies health and also not to mention mothers when they're breastfeeding, if they don't breastfeed, then there's chances for infections and it can hurt everybody involved; the babies and the mothers. So having an easy way to breastfeed and pump when you're at work, that would definitely help women, babies and employers keep mothers engaged at work. 

Maria Soubbotina: [00:09:17] Definitely. And I know right now, as you mentioned, we're facing some really harsh realities with women leaving the workforce because of COVID, but looking to the future, what excites you about the future for women and leadership positions for women? 

Natalie O'Neal: [00:09:32] I think that we're at a point right now where women, they are excited about the future and they're not going to take no for an answer.

So I think that women are strong and we're going to keep fighting until there's an easier way to get that balance, work and home life balance. So I'm excited to see what women can do in the future. 

Maria Soubbotina: [00:09:57] Me too. I'm excited to see where your research takes you. 

Well, I'm so happy. We got to discuss such an important topic.

Thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Natalie. I really appreciate it. 

Natalie O'Neal: [00:10:07] Thank you for having me.

Joshua Williams: [00:10:13] Thank you for listening to this episode of retail revolution, a very special thank you to everyone who has helped make this podcast possible. If you'd like to support the work we're doing, please visit our show page @RetailRevolutionPodcast.com and click on the donate link. Our theme music was composed by Spencer Powell. Be well and stay tuned for our next episode.