Transcript - Diversity, Inclusivity and Swimwear

Joshua Williams: [00:00:00] Retail Revolution, a unique podcast that features in-depth conversations with guest experts in omni-channel retailing with myriad perspectives, technology, consumer engagement, data analytics, merchandising, and more. We pay special attention to current sociopolitical issues and challenges and their implications on fashion retail, as well as opportunities to innovate and rethink retail's future.

Visit RetailRevolutionPodcast.com for more information, including full transcripts and follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn at retail revolution podcast, retail revolution is produced by Joshua Williams and hosted by Christopher Lacy. Both are assistant professors in the Fashion Management graduate program at Parsons School of Design.

Maggie Kanan: [00:00:47] Hello, this is a special edition of Retail Revolution. My name is Maggie Kanan, and I'm so grateful for the opportunity to speak to you as an intern for the Retail Revolution podcast. I was given this opportunity through my professors as I'm currently pursuing my master's in fashion management and beginning my career in the fashion industry. As a designer and creative, I find inspiration from those around me and the environment that I'm in.

Moving to sunny Florida five years ago sparked my passion for designing swimwear specifically. With the current social and political climate and pushing the fashion industry towards a more inclusive and diverse space, I began to think about just how exclusive swimwear is in nature. With clear gender, body and social norms surrounding a non-functional garment, I thought it could be interesting to dissect how different political and social perspectives influenced the industry in both design and consumer standpoints. Who better to ask than my amazing guest today. Gilleon Smith Mercado. Her years of experience working as a casting director and creative have given her plenty of insight into just how the fashion industry ticks.

Gilleon welcome to Retail Revolution podcast. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk today. 

Gilleon Smith: [00:02:16] Hi, thank you so much for having me. 

Maggie Kanan: [00:02:18] Just to start out, would you like to give a short introduction? 

 Gilleon Smith: [00:02:21] Sure. Yes. So I am Gilleon Smith Mercado. I owned a casting business in New York City, for about 10 years. And before that I was an assistant and worked in casting for about five years before that. I kind of got my start working in extras, casting, and then graduated to working more on the fashion. End of it. While I was an assistant in New York city. I started my business, gosh, I can't even remember when maybe 2009 or 10 and I definitely focused a lot of my business on really focusing on body positivity, inclusivity, creating a space for more representation and just ethical standards and treatment of  talent in the industry.

And a lot of the clients that I worked with were really aligned with that. I cast did the Chromat show for 10 seasons and really just celebrated diversity along the way. 

Maggie Kanan: [00:03:38] So for the past 10 years, we've seen a lot of campaigns for body positivity, inclusivity and diversity. How has this impacted the industry? For not only a modeling and marketing standpoint, but also from a design standpoint. 

Gilleon Smith: [00:03:53] Well, I definitely think that it's just creating a space for more of representation has an abled audience members to really celebrate diversity and celebrate body positivity.

And it has created a sense of celebration, a sense of pride a sense of self-confidence in models and talent and, and just normal people, everyday people. So that has really, I think, influenced brands to create a better design plan, in terms of how they approach sizing So, you know, obviously sample sizing has like increased and you know, just making runway shows a lot more inclusive has really transpired through that.

And I think social media has played a big impact on this as well, because there is this innate ability now to have all different people from all different walks of life, weigh in on these decisions that designers are making. So it really is audience driven as, as opposed to just, you know, the fashion community at large.

Maggie Kanan: [00:05:14] That's so true. I feel like social media definitely gives way more people access to these decisions. 

Gilleon Smith: [00:05:20] Absolutely. 

Maggie Kanan: [00:05:21] Going off of that. As a non-functional garment, how do societal standards play into the design and popularity of swimwear and our perception of acceptable nudity and body positivity? 

 Gilleon Smith: [00:05:33] So when we're thinking about swimwear, I do think that it is an extremely functional garment and an extremely essential garment.

It's something that everybody wears every day to the beach, to the pool, to the spa. And even with Chromat, we've shown how swimwear can be kind of layered into your everyday wardrobe. So it really is I think an important piece of fashion in general. And it's really important that people from all different walks of life are able to have access to sizing and, and to the ability to wear swimwear and feel comfortable and feel confident and feel connected in the garments. And I mean, I think that this absolutely shows with a lot of like major retailers, like Target creating lines, body inclusivity lines, and Old Navy, like creating body inclusivity lines. Aerie there are so many different brands that are really focusing on this.

And again, I think with social media and with the pressure that, all of this, like culminates to kind of a reckoning of the traditional standards of beauty, where everyone had to be a size two.  I think it's influenced people to really understand that everybody needs this garment.

Everybody should, have the ability to feel confident and feel amazing in said garment. And I think it has influenced both, high fashion brands and affordable, price tag brands to just all follow suit to make sure that  that these garments of all sizes are accessible.

Maggie Kanan: [00:07:19] How do you think a designer can broaden their market reach when styles vary so much in each city and region? Does this limit inclusivity? 

Gilleon Smith: [00:07:27] I definitely don't think that. I think that when, you know, when you're approaching the marketing, the marketing strategy, you really have to rely on amazing casting to broaden the market reach.

And, I've heard terms like approachable and accessible. And when you're thinking about regions, like the Midwest. I mean, it's so huge, you know, but then you're also thinking internationally, you're thinking, you know, globally. And I think that when you're putting people in your ads and when you're creating a tone for representation, it really has to reflect in the people that you're placing in those roles.

So it's not necessarily only size inclusivity. There's also an opportunity for ethnicity diversity. There's an opportunity for putting differently abled people and these in your marketing strategies and putting LGBTQ people in your ads. Just creating a space where everyone is included can really help to, increase sales, increase enthusiasm for the brands.

But I do think that it does need to come from a genuine place and authentic place, because I think it shows when it's just, " hey, well, we have to have this one, you know, size," or "we have to have this one ethnic person in there to make this look like we're inclusive."

And, and I think it's very clear when a brand does this for, social media accolades, or, when it's done and it's forced fed. And when it really comes from a genuine place with the brand wanting to create a space for for inclusivity. 

Maggie Kanan: [00:09:35] I feel like with all the inclusivity and diversity campaigns, there've been a lot of efforts by companies because they think they have to. And that definitely comes off as inauthentic, and it's easy to see through, but diversity and inclusivity does reach beyond sizes, abilities and ethnicities, as you said. 

Going off of that.  Can swimwear  brands increase overall profit by expanding assortments with inclusive sizing and providing options for product personalization?

Gilleon Smith: [00:10:05] Absolutely. I mean, it depends on their production process as well, because it could be, more expensive. You never know, but that's where it comes with the authenticity of what you're doing, because if you really do want to be inclusive and really change the landscape of how your brand is approached or how representation is approach. Then, that cost won't necessarily matter in that regard because you're going to get paid back in, not the accolades, but in the response from the fan base or the sales. But when you're doing it and you're like, oh, well, if we make, you know, 10 more sizes it's going to cost us as much more money and, and then there's only like two available on the rack and you know, it doesn't really bode well for the consumer. So I think that again has to come from the creators and the creative directors and the teams that formulate and make these decisions on how production is going to be conducted and, and how they're going to execute distributing all the productsinto the markets.

Maggie Kanan: [00:11:22] That's something I feel like isn't discussed as much as inclusivity and diversity in general, just because from an outside standpoint, it's easy to say designers need more inclusivity. And the designers actually, for the most part, I find would love to provide that. But those costs constraints are typically (absolutely) where that disconnect comes in.

Gilleon Smith: [00:11:46] Right. And so many people can easily say it and not be able to execute it. But that's what I was saying is like, where is the payoff in, you know, the consumer purchasing these items or, and that's where you can tell, like, you can create that authenticity through the fan base. And, I know a brand like Chromat has really thrived on that and been able to continue distributing so many sizes because they have so much of a support from, the consumers and the fans. Whereas, if you have, just a different brand, who's just doing it because, you know, they may not be able to afford the sizing and then you can see it reflecting in how the product is distributed.

Maggie Kanan: [00:12:32] To wrap up, what are your thoughts on how brands can create change in the industry? 

Gilleon Smith: [00:12:37] I think it is really important for progressive teams to be more introduced into the fashion industry. And I say this because the fashion industry very much seems like this extremely modern, contemporary industry you know, and I think that always shows in the design elements of the brands. But when your thinking about the community itself, it is very traditional and there's a lot of the same teams working and doing the same things over and over again, and the same models in the same stylists and photographers working in all the jobs. And I think it's really important to introduce new blood, new team members, progressive thinkers; diversity within the decision-makers and within the, the higher ups in the, and the design process and, and where it comes from the top. Because that is how real change will continue to happen, continue to be evoked in, in this industry.

So I do think it's really important to continue just creating a space for more representation within the companies and the brands themselves as well to create a space for more forward-thinking. 

Maggie Kanan: [00:14:03] I feel like we're just starting to scratch the surface on making these changes.

Gilleon Smith: [00:14:07] Yeah. And I think it's just, it happens at, at taking a chance on, on one cool, progressive thinker, cool progressive person is the way to go. 

Maggie Kanan: [00:14:17] Well, thank you. That's about all the time we have for today, but I'm so thankful for the chance to have this conversation with you. 

Gilleon Smith: [00:14:23] Thank you.

Maggie Kanan: [00:14:25] And to our listeners, if you'd like to stay up to date with Gilleon, you can find her @GilleonSmith on Instagram. 

Gilleon Smith: [00:14:31] Awesome. Thanks so much. 

Joshua Williams: [00:14:33] Thank you for listening to this episode of Retail Revolution. A very special thank you to everyone who has helped make this podcast possible. If you'd like to support the work we're doing, please visit our show page at RetailRevolutionPodcast.com and click on the donate link. Our theme music was composed by Spencer Powell.

Be well and stay tuned for our next episode.