Transcript - Stacy Graiko

Joshua Williams: Retail Revolution is a special, limited podcast created specifically for "Retailing and Service Design," a unique course that is part of the Fashion Management graduate program at Parsons School of Design in New York City. Each episode features in depth conversations with guest experts in omnichannel retailing with myriad perspectives: technology, consumer engagement, data analytics, merchandising, and more. We pay special attention to the short- and long- term challenges and implications of COVID-19 and potential opportunities to rethink retail's future. Retail Revolution is produced by Joshua Williams and hosted by Christopher Lacy, both our Assistant Professors in the School of Fashion at Parsons.

Christopher Lacy: Welcome to Retail Revolution, where we discuss all topics relating to retail and service design. Today, we are diving into consumer psychology and its impact on retail design. And with us today, we have managing director of Kantar Consulting as well as bestselling author of the book, Ladies, Power up Your Brand.

Stacy Graiko. Thank you so much for joining us today, Stacy.

Stacy Graiko: Thank you, Chris. Nice to be here. 

Christopher Lacy: Awesome. I'm super excited to have this conversation with you today. you know, I'm, I'll tell our listeners, you and I have known each other for five, six years, maybe. we've done quite a bit of research together, in the past and into consumer behavior psychology and today's discussion is going to be a real treat for our listeners.

So, I would love for you to tell them a bit about you and your career trajectory. 

Stacy Graiko: Wow, I'll begin at the beginning. I study and work in consumer psychology. That's consumer behavior. The study of why people buy what they buy. I started out back in college as a communications major, studying advertising. I wanted to make ads like Don Draper.

 In the course of studying advertising, I found myself taking a lot of psychology classes and diving into and getting really engrossed in the psychology behind people, why particular ads were calling out to them, why they bought certain brands over others, and why they picked certain stores to shop at.

So that's sort of why behind the what that people do, was more interesting to me than creating ads. So, I started going in this direction of psychology and really trying to learn more about how to understand people right. So, out of college, I went into market research right away, which is the career that I've had for the majority of my career.

I did spend some time in advertising agencies, on the account strategy and planning side, which is again, sort of bringing the consumer voice to the advertising process. But always with an eye toward understanding why people do what they do. As people, we're so complex and there are so many factors that play, and I really wanted to dissect that and understand, what makes us tick.

Christopher Lacy: Awesome.

Stacy Graiko: And that leads us to today, the position I have today, which is at Kantar, as you said, and my role is very specific and focused in the qualitative research area. So really working with consumers, either one on one or in groups, to understand, you know, why they're there making decisions around brands and products and retailers, et cetera.

So, I'm doing a lot of hands on with them, out in stores, shopping as you know, because we've done some of that work together with Barney's. And then in focus groups in their homes, really trying to have these conversations where people are consuming products, to help us understand how to better create connections between brands and consumers.

Christopher Lacy: That's fantastic. And also sounds like so much fun every day. I think, you know, every day for you must be a new journey, that's for sure. 

Stacy Graiko: Yeah. It's, true. And, you know, people are interesting. We all have stories and our stories are constantly changing and evolving depending upon what's facing us that day. 

So, you're right. It's always a new thing and always really fascinating to discover, you know, what makes people do what they do. It's great. I love my job.

Christopher Lacy: So, when we talk about consumer behavior psychology, which you touched on and you told us, you know, it's why people buy what they buy or why they do what they do.

and I do want there to be the, I know that people are like, oh yeah, I mean, I guess that's important, but don't people buy things because they need things. but is it really that simple? So why, would consumer behavior psychology be so important to retailers, especially today? 

Stacy Graiko:  Well, I think there's a couple of things going on and you can kind of think about this in the context of yourself as a consumer, right?

Because we all buy things and we all have preferences to certain brands. How many of those decisions that you make on a weekly basis, about things to buy or things to use, are really rational. That is, you know, how much do you actually consider, the, the rational, realistic, functional reasons for choosing something versus I just really like the way that makes me look, or I just really like the feel of me in this car. So, a lot of the decisions that we make, in fact, the majority of decisions that we make as consumers are not at all rational, but they're highly emotional. And so really understanding what people won't tell us, because if you ask me why I bought that car, I'm going to tell you I got a great deal on it, the gas mileage is phenomenal, the tires are the safest for my family. But in reality, I really just liked that car because I looked super cool in it and it's a much better car than my other car.

Right. So, think about it sort of in the context of why you make decisions and you'll start to see that, you wouldn't necessarily tell me the real reasons for making some of your decisions. So, they get a tease that out of you, and I've got to really understand using psychology, some of the real connections that you have toward brands and why.

Christopher Lacy: Well, this is fascinating because that means, you know, that that means that this is really the core of what “Retailing, and Service Design “is about. So, in that case, I want to ask you considering consumer behavior psychology, then what does effective and meaningful retailing and service design look like today? And when you think about today, how has it changed in the last five years? 

Stacy Graiko: Yeah. I think that that retailers have had incredible challenges as you know, in the last five years. And we see that by the number of stores that just, you know, simply have failed, have gone out of business, for various reasons.

So, I think one of the biggest reasons that we can all point to is the rise of digital commerce and online shopping and online brand exposure, right? That's just been a whole new way for consumers to interact with retail that has really shaken marketplace. And I think as a result what's happened with consumers is they have really increased their expectations of retailing and service design.

Right. So that, going into a bricks and mortar store now, we have much higher expectations than we did five, 10, 20 years ago because we're used to having everything at our fingertips online, we're used to being able to sort through things very efficiently. We're used to being able to shop on our own in an environment that we control versus other people control when we're online, we're in charge of our own experience.

And so, the expectations that online commerce has sort of created with consumers, are very hard to meet in a bricks and mortar environment. And I think that's why we see a big disconnect between how people feel when they shop online versus shopping in stores. And we've seen, you know, convenience things, like people don't want to go to the mall anymore.

You know, they don't want to take the trouble of driving and parking and dealing with traffic and dealing with all kinds of crowds and people, just to go in and, and get a need met, that they can meet online in a much more convenient, easy, more efficient, and sometimes more enjoyable way. So, we've had this real sort of tension between.

Online shopping and retailing and bricks and mortar. And even for retailers, you know, traditional bricks and mortar retailers, like Macy's, whose online businesses are a small part of their business overall, they've really tried to create these engaging retail spaces, and draw people back into the malls and into the big bricks and mortar stores.

but we've seen, they haven't been able to do that really well and certainly that wasn't a strategy to recession proofing, as we're seeing now with all of the layoffs that Macy's has just announced. So I guess I'd sum it up from a consumer standpoint by saying we've already started to see this avoidance of the mall for the last few years.

We've seen people starting to discover brands online, through social media, and seeing the rise of these brands that are only online: Bombus Everlane and then LaFleur, I could go on the list is endless. And then, you know, we've also seen sort of this cultural shift around, particularly with millennials and younger generations wanting to watch their money get great deals.

So, we've seen the rise of discount retailers and some energy around used resale clothing stores. So, there's really been a lot of forces in the marketplace that have led us to where we are now, which I'm sure is the next topic that you're going to want to talk about. How do we move forward with the light of the pandemic we're now in?

Christopher Lacy: It is exactly what I want to talk about next, because I think you've touched on quite a few things. For me, brick and mortar, I love it. I think, you know, just from my standpoint, I have always looked at online businesses as a way and should be a way to drive people to your store, and that the online presence should really be the transactional. I need something really quick and that's how that goes, but that people should be able to engage with your brand and understand the experience via touch, via sound. So I've always had an affinity to brick and mortar and I think there's that place for it because you have these online retailers, as you mentioned, like a Bonobos and Everlane that said, okay, well we need to open a brick and mortar location, which I find so interesting.

So here we are now in a global crisis where we're socially distanced right now. It is impacting the retail industry from supply chain on every level. And we go okay, how does this impact how a consumer will engage with a retailer now? And I want your thoughts on that. I mean, I have mine and I'll say mine or a bit, but what do you think that this new global crisis will do now, especially to brick and mortar retail?

Stacy Graiko: It's such a great question. And this is happening in real time around us right now. So, presumably anything we say today may well change in the next weeks and months. But I will say this, let's look at it in two parts. Let's look at it as during the quarantine, how is our behavior changing? Right. So, where we're forced to stay in now.  And I think what that's doing is creating a lot more connection between online retailers and people. They sort of have us as a captive audience. Right. I was talking to one of my coworkers yesterday about this topic and she is not a shopper in real life, in non- quarantine time, she doesn't like to shop. And I, I said, well, how are you? How are you shopping now? You still need stuff. And she said, you know, online is providing a nice little break for me because I'm at my computer 10 hours a day now working from home, for the first time. And now, I'm finding some time where I can stop in and check out some of these retailers online that I may not have seen before.

So, it is sort of providing a break, but also an opportunity I think for consumers to discover more brands than they have in the past. I also think some of the really smart retailers are, and this is true of brands across the board, no matter what category they're in, they're crafting messages to meet people where they're at.

Right? So, we'd had this, this question a lot from advertisers in different categories, banking and appliances, asking is now an okay time to advertise or does it feel insensitive if I'm advertising during a global pandemic? And what we've said is, the brands that continue to keep connections with consumers are going to be remembered after the crisis.

Right? So, you have to keep talking to your consumers, but you talk to them in a way that's relevant and appropriate for where they're at now. So, my friend, again from yesterday was telling me that she's been getting emails from, companies talking about their lounge wear, right? They're like yoga pants and when you're sitting around the house, the comfy cozy clothing that you want to wear, and it's speaking to her because it's relevant. It reflects the lifestyle that we have now and it's speaking on an emotional level.  To the comfort that everybody's looking for, that comfort, that reassurance, and so brands that are kind of maintaining connections with their customers and consumers, but in a relevant way, are the ones that I think are going to be remembered after this crisis. 

And then moving forward, the second part of this, is what happens after the quarantine, when we can go back out. And I think that's a really interesting thing for your students to be thinking about, because what we've seen and what we've heard from consumers already is this was a giant wakeup call in a lot of ways.

Right? And so, the behaviors that we're now showing at home, were our adaptive behaviors. I think we're going to continue even after we're allowed to go back out again. So, you know, I think it's true. We're going to see a bounce back in some way and who knows what that will look like, whether it will be a sharp bounce back or a more gradual, there will be a bounce back and people will want to go out and we'll be eager to be social again.

I think restaurants will bounce back in a really big way. but I wonder about apparel and accessories retailing because I think that people have discovered that they can live with less, right? So financially, especially if we are in a recession, which it looks like we will be, I think people are really going to be watching their dollars and questioning each purchase they make for non-essential goods. And then the other thing that I'm hearing consumers talk a lot about is, this renewed sort of awareness of germs and an illness that we really didn't have pre-COVID. When you think about it, I think there've always been people who have been a little more, you know, in tune to germs and germi-ness, but for the majority of U.S. shoppers, you never really thought about going out to a store and being with crowds of people and trying on clothing that a hundred other people had their head in before you.

But I think we're going to be thinking about those things more after the fact. And I think for that reason, we're probably going to see a little different relationship with retail after the crisis than we did before. 

Christopher Lacy: Yeah, I think to your last point is what I find so interesting because we spent a lot of time in retail trying to create spaces where people could be together in a social way, while also shopping. And so, you saw a lot of stores where product was secondary and experience was first, whether it was, what is the coffee shop look like inside of it? Or, how do they engage with other things that it wasn't about products first? So, how does now this concern about my health in a public space change the design of a store? Because now, do we all go out and we're like, yeah, I want to be close to people again and talk to them? Or are we going to walk out of our houses and be like still staying six feet away? 

Stacy Graiko: I know. Well, it's funny now the grocery stores, which is the only place that I'm going but all of them now have these signs, as you're walking in and grabbing your wipe, that tell you to stay six feet away. Or some of the smaller stores will say, only 10 people allowed in at a time. So, I think that those things are really going to stick with us even after the fact. And I'm wondering, and I know you're a big fan of mono brands and boutiques as am I, I'm wondering if this is going to bring back the smaller retail store experience? 

So whether it's a boutique, you know by Gucci or another luxury brand, or if it's a mom and pop that's in my local, you know, "manufactured main street" I call it. You know, these little housing complexes that have a main street running through it with a coffee shop and some stores, which are huge near where I live near Philadelphia.

I'm wondering if we're going to see more of those small sorts of retailers come back after this. 

Christopher Lacy: I honestly think we will. And one of the things I've always enjoyed about a new you peck me right because you know me, I do love a boutique store. I do love mono brand. I think people will, now that you've been forced to slow down, it's going to feel weird to try to go back to being really sped up. And I think anytime you grow as a person or a business, there's always some sort of a drastic environmental impact. And what I mean by environmental impact is to something directly happening in your own environment, environmental impact that forces you to change.

And I don't see us changing in this way where we're like, okay, I kind of enjoy this ability to slow down. To then turn right around and go back to that fast pace and being, you know, overwhelmed. And I think the idea of going into a boutique setting where things are slowed down, where things are curated with such consciousness, not saying multi vendors aren't, but I do think that you see it better in a mono brand atmosphere. Where you see the DNA of a brand, you see how everything is so thoughtfully presented for you. And I think the consumers are gonna want that again. I do. 

Yeah, I do too. And you know, just thinking about the effects of a potential recession, we're all gonna be watching our money, but that doesn't mean we're not going to be spending.

That means that we're going to be spending smartly. Right. So, when I think about the experience I get in a boutique, and I think this is another, sort of impact that the coronavirus has made on us. We all care about our neighbors and our communities a lot more than we did before. At least we were thinking about them more than we did before.

Stacy Graiko: So, going into a small boutique at my local main street, I may pay more, but I'm going to have a deeper relationship with the people who work there. I'm going to see the connection between my purchase and their livelihood. Right. I think we're all really, really focused on supporting local businesses right now, especially, I think that's going to continue. so if that means that in the future, I'm going to pay a little bit more to get a higher value ,in the sense that I feel more connected to the community, I feel more connected to the mission of the brand, and of the store, as you said.

I think that those are all going to be things that consumers are willing to pay a little bit more for. So, I don't think it's solely going to be about cost savings. I think it's going to be about the value that people perceive they're getting from retailers. 

Christopher Lacy: Agreed. Agreed. What are you witnessing now as conversations though, that are happening with brand, as you're talking to them?  I know you speak to the consumers a lot, but when a brand is talking to you right now, in this whirlwind, what are they saying?

Stacy Graiko: They’re really concerned that they speak sensitively and what I mean by that, is nobody wants to come across as insensitive or promotional or just looking to make a buck, while at the same time brands acknowledge that their livelihood is on the line. Right, so they're scared just like we are as consumers. You know, I'm scared that my paycheck may not be the same in three months, and they're scared that they're not going to do enough sales to keep the doors open. So, everyone is really sort of in the same boat, so to speak. And I think what I've seen, being done very successfully here in my own community is the restaurants that are still open are talking really bluntly to consumers, you know, like, Hey guys, we're here for you, we want to be able to help you  but we want to keep our lights on and our employees, you know, fed as well. So, let's kind of cocreate this together, right? So, they're having a lot of conversations with people in the local community about how they can best serve their needs.

and what I would love to see is that brought up to the national brand level, right? To bigger brands where bigger brands then who, yes, traditionally always do research with their customers, that's why people like me have jobs, but I'd like to see that dialogue be a little more authentic, genuine, a little more equal in the sense that, you know, I want to hear the brand say, this is the problem and the challenge that I have, how can you as consumers help me? And then what are your challenges and problems and how can I help you? Right. I'd like to see that dialogue be a little more honest and transparent between brands and consumers. brands are made up of And so I think we're all in this together and feeling our way through it together at the same time. So that's sort of what I'm saying is, I want to do the right thing by my customers and for my shareholders, I'm not sure what that is. So I'm just going to kind of crowd source it, you know, put the questions out and see if we can get through this together.

Christopher Lacy: I actually have to say, I love that, that is the thought process right now, because I think it's now an authentic thought process and hopefully it will continue  forward because  if we think back over the last, you know, five, six years, there have been a lot of brands that have done some crazy things, from, H&M's ad with the little boy and the monkey shirt.

And just that disconnected authenticity because no one was asking the question. And what I'm hoping is is that when they're in this position of going, how do we really connect with people in a meaningful way that really isn't about driving sales, but about driving compassion and understanding. This will help that whole dialogue that we have going around of what does inclusivity look like from a brand perspective to a consumer and how are we conscious?

Because to your point, a brand is made up of people. So, I'm hoping that that's where we can kind of come on the other side of this, which brings me to you, you're doing all different types of research. There's obviously quantitative and qualitative research that exist in your field. So how does the brand properly leverage that research and data that you're providing to them?

Because sometimes I think a brand can't figure out their way because there might be so much data that comes in, right. Like, how do they find their way? So how do you kind of help them through that? How should they be using it? What are your thoughts on that? 

Stacy Graiko: Yeah. it's a great question. And is a PR challenge and a problem, you're right. I mean, when you're a big brand, I think the bigger you are as a brand, sometimes, or the higher up you are as a person in a brand, maybe I should say it that way, the farther away you are from your customers.  Something that I always urge  clients to do and you and I have done this together in the past at Barney's, is for the associates, as well as the senior management to be walking the floor, to be talking to customers, to be sitting in the cafe and chatting with people and really, you know, sort of living the daily experience of customers, to the extent that's possible.

I think that's really super important. So, what I'd like to work on, with the brands that I'm consulting with now on moving forward in the future, is really having that experience from a consumer point of view. And not just reading charts and data, but getting out there, you know, undercover boss, I think is one of the best things that I've ever seen on TV. because it's so amazing to me that the CEOs have these epiphany's that like as a normal consumer, you watch the show and you go, of course that's the customer experience. Of course, we know that. But the CEO, sometimes it's the first time they're seeing that. And so, I think that it's really important that more senior leaders and executives in companies have that experience that their customers have and can really live that for themselves. You can look at data and spreadsheets all day long, but I don't think it really hits home until you've lived it yourself.

Christopher Lacy: I once had a boss and she is like a mentor to me. And now she works in the Middle East, but she once said to me, I can look at the numbers all day and the black and white but what you do really well is, you provide the color. And it's really important that when you're looking at data, that you can also provide the color to that data. Because when you and I were doing work together, I don't even think there was a time, really, that you presented me with information that I was like, so extremely shocked and blown away by. Simply because I was in the stores across our network so often that I would say, yeah, that seems like that probably makes sense for Chicago, which means that I was using your data to reinforce my intuition.

And that's how I think data should work best sometimes. Where it's like, you should be so ingrained in the culture of your company or what's happening in the retail brand that, that data should be reinforcing what your intuition is saying. It shouldn't be like, oh my gosh, this is brand new to me. Where did this come from? And I think that happens a lot. 

Stacy Graiko: Yeah. I mean, we call it voice of the customer because it's the way a customer might describe the same problem you would describe are two different things, right? You might say the associate’s response time on the floor is a lot lower than, you know, the standard protocol, where as a customer will say I went in and nobody cared that I was there. Or, I was there walking around, and people were judging me and didn't come over and help me. Those are really real raw experiences that I think can really bring it home, to senior people in the organization. And when you see, whether it's a videotape where you see these people in a focus group or you experience them in real life in person because you have a customer panel, you can really, I think, understand the consumer experience much better than in a graph or a chart. 

Christopher Lacy: You said something to me once that I think it always surprises me. I think about it all the time. When I'm writing any type of training materials now, when I'm writing a lecture, whatever it is I'm doing I think about it.

And you said to me, you were like, a customer's experience is either a positive or negative. There is no in between. And I want you to kind of expand on that, because I probably just ruined what you said, but what is the one thing, considering that statement that you, imparted upon me, what then is the one thing a brand cannot afford not to do?

Stacy Graiko: I love that you brought that up, Chris but high-quality connections is the academic study or theory behind that. And what it says, you got it exactly right is in interactions between two people or in this case between a person and a brand, there's no such thing as a neutral experience.

So, when I'm talking to you, when I'm shopping at a store, I'm either going to skew toward a positive experience or I'm going to skew toward a negative experience. I'm never going to just have an experience where I come out and go, that was okay, right. I'm always going to be either a little bit excited and inspired, or hopefully a lot if we've done our job right as retailers, or really disappointed and bummed out and, you know, mad at the brand, if we haven't done our job. So, I think that all brands really need to keep that in mind. And as you're crafting experiences for consumers, for people, go the extra mile and design experiences that are going to push them up the ladder on that positive side of the scales. But these positive experiences that we have can be very minute, they can be micro moments.

They don't have to be these big grandiose things that brands do for consumers. They can be these things that surprise and delight. These little Easter eggs in the experience. But how can we design and plan more of those into the experience so that on-balance excuse to the positive and we've got these, you know, high quality, life affirming, inspiring connections with people when they think about your brand? Versus the other side, which is where you start to lose customers and they start to say negative things about you to their friends. So really staying on the positive side of the scale, with purposeful service and experience design is the key.

And I think that's probably the answer to your question. What brands can't afford not to do is listen to their consumers and listen to the type of experiences that people want. And so we're saying continue talking to people right now. This is a great time to do customer research because you've got millions of people at home with their computer and nowhere to go. And who need social connection. 

We're creating social connection right now. So, we are doing online focus groups. I'm doing interviews, I'm talking to people by phone, you know, smoke signal. However, I need to, to talk to consumers to understand the consumer needs and desires and wants and bring that to brands so that they can craft these high-quality experiences, you know, now and going forward into the future.

I think that that's really, really key for brands is to understand where your consumers are at and how you can deepen your connections with them. 

Christopher Lacy: That's fantastic, really. I just love whenever we have this conversation in that way. And just from a personal perspective and thinking about relationships, being in that mindset of every person I engage with, when they walk away from me it's not going to be a neutral experience in their mind. And when I'm engaging with anyone it's not a neutral experience. I think, you know, it's just such great advice and it's so powerful and something we really need to consider as a whole, as a society, I think. 

I want to switch gears and ask you about your own personal projects. You wrote a book and it's a bestselling book, congratulations! It's four stars on Amazon. 

Stacy Graiko: five!

Christopher Lacy: So, I want you to talk a bit about that. If you could tell our listeners, what was your desire to write the book? Why did you have that desire and what is the book about. 

Stacy Graiko: Yeah, thank you. it definitely is a passion project and a labor of love for myself and my co-author Faith James, who is a friend, a colleague, a bestie for going on 20 years now.

I met her when we were both working in advertising in Minneapolis and it's just one of those things, like you and I, we just kind of became friends very quickly. And continued on, and we decided last year, well this has really been ruminating for a few years I would say, but we both come from advertising agencies and research backgrounds. And so, we know a lot about brand building about how to build a brand sort of from the ground up systematically. And we've helped small businesses, we've helped large brands in our capacity. We've done things at various times since we've known each other. We've given workshops for small business owners. We have given workshops for strategic planners. So, we've amassed a lot of knowledge about brand building and we're both women, obviously. And we believe deeply that we need equal representation in business and in government. And what I mean by that is, we want men and women to be running the country, running the world, running corporations, side by side.

So, 50, 50. No more of this, you know, two token females on a board of directors of 18 old guys. We really feel passionate about that. And we said a couple years ago, we have all this knowledge about building big brands and we're helping these companies become really successful.

What about our people? You know, what about women? How can we translate the knowledge that we have about building brands from companies to women? And so, we created this program, this sort of systematic approach, to take what we knew from brand building with small and big companies, and tailor it for women.

So, in the book it's a bit of a workbook of sorts, in that if you follow the chapter, one through 12, at the end of the book you'll have created a foundation for your brand. And we take women through exercises, like, what are your VPs? What are the things that you envision for the world and are passionate about? And we have a series of exercises that takes them through that. we talk about dressing and the importance of your physical appearance. And how that has to mirror who you are inside, the authentic part of you, in order to really connect with people and really show what makes you different and unique.

So, it sort of goes through this whole process. And the title of the book is actually has kind of a long title and it's funny. This is sort of Faith's brainchild because I actually can't pronounce one of the words in it, very well. but the full title is, "Ladies Power Up Your Brand: The Women Entrepreneurs  [that's the word i always get stuck with] Guide to Getting Paid to Be Bold, Brilliant and Unapologetically You". So, it's really about what makes you authentic as a woman, as an individual, and how you can take that and make money from it. Right? So, our hope is that this is for women who are wanting to start their own business but they realize that they themselves are the brand and they need to get clear on their brand priorities, and what their brand stands for before they hang their shingle and go out into the world with their brand. It's for women who are leaving corporate America and saying, you know, this is not the environment that's crafted for me. You know, this is an environment that was designed for men by men. In some cases, not every company is like this, but some women have told us that. 

And so they want to go out and create their own maybe women led or a company with values that are more in line with theirs. We also love that some political candidates are using the book to figure out their candidacy and what makes them unique and how they sell themselves as a brand to their constituents to, you know, hopefully win more political races this year and in the future.

 So that's what the book is all about and that was the impetus. And that's really sort of the passion behind it for Faith and I, is men and women sharing equally in the leadership of our country and in our brands and our world.

Christopher Lacy: I have to tell you, I am genuinely so proud of you for doing that project because you know, writing a book is, is definitely not easy. Because first of all, the hardest part is kind of like how do you start with your ideas and then really going through the process. But you, you wrote a book in a way that it is going to benefit society and benefit a lot of different generations. I think a lot of times when people think of a book like that, it is only geared towards a certain generational group of people. But now the average age of the CEO a company in our country is 35 years old.

So this book definitely speaks to a younger group, but it also speaks to a, you know, bad 50 year old or even 60 year old, who's like I want to change up my life and do something different and how do I do that with a brand? And kudos to you, kudos to Faith for investing your time in creating this guide for all of us.

How can our listeners stay informed about what you are going to be doing in the industry next? if they wanted to reach out. 

Stacy Graiko: So, thank you for that. I love having conversations with people anywhere, anytime. So, I have a pretty unique last name. I'm pretty easy to find online. So, Stacy Graiko, G R A I K O.  Is my Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Linkedin.

You can find me on any one of those places. And I'm always happy to return calls and emails. Never a problem and always welcomed. The other thing that I will say is if you want to hear more about the book, it's on Amazon, of course but we have a website called the Personal Branding Consultancy, which is under my name and Faith James, my writing partner.

So you can find more information about branding and personal branding, for women in particular there. And then I do think that Kantar is doing some really interesting cutting-edge things in response to what's happening with retail, during the COVID era. so kantar.com, K A N T A R .com, has a number of good white papers and articles.

We're doing a weekly check-in with consumers around the world, to understand the impact of the global pandemic and how it's affecting retail across categories. So, it's grocery, it’s apparel, it's services. So, there's a really nice white paper series of white papers and PowerPoint's that you can get from the kantar.com website for free. So, I would also encourage your listeners to check that out and use that as a resource as well. 

Christopher Lacy: Fantastic. Stacy, thank you so much for your time today. I've enjoyed this conversation. I'm sure our listeners enjoyed this conversation. We hope to have you back in person when we all can see each other face-to-face in the near future.

So, thank you so much. And thank you, Retail Revolutionaries for listening today. 

Stacy Graiko: Thanks, Chris, take care. 

Joshua Williams: Thank you for listening to this episode of Retail Revolution, a very special thank you to everyone who has helped make this podcast possible, our guests, our students and fellow faculty at Parsons School of Design, especially in such an extraordinary and unprecedented time. Our theme music was composed by Spencer Powell.

Be well and stay tuned for our next episode.

www.RetailRevolutionPodcast.com