Transcript - Andrew Forbes
Joshua Williams: Welcome to our special Retail Revolution podcast summer series, "Independent Thinkers: The Rise of Generation Z." Each short episode is produced and hosted by Parsons School of Design Fashion Management, graduate students, Miloni Kothari and Caitlin Forbes. Each interview features six key questions that will help fashion and retail brands understand the needs, wants and desires of the rising Gen-Z customer.
Listen to full episodes of Retail Revolution with host Christopher Lacy every Tuesday. Follow us on Instagram @retailrevolutionpodcast and visit retailrevolutionpodcast.com for more information. Retail Revolution is produced by Joshua Williams.
Caitlin Forbes: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Retail Revolution podcast. Our special summer series, "Independent Thinkers: The Rise of Generation Z". I'm your host today, Caitlin Forbes and today's guest is Andrew Forbes. Andrew, welcome to the show. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Andrew Forbes: Yeah, thanks for having me. So, I studied LS&A at the University of Michigan. And when I graduated, was part of an investment group that bought Del Toro footwear out of Miami. Spent some time working there on the business development side, but really touched all aspects of the business.
Two and a half years went by there. We sold the company to a independent investor out of New York City. And I moved back home to work with my father at the Forbes Company. We do regional shopping center development.
Caitlin Forbes: Great. I kind of want to give all the listeners an overview of the fashion retail landscape today, and kind of how our generation is feeling about brands and shopping today.
I want to start and jump into the specific aspects of brands, but I want to start by you telling me what brands stand out to you that you would want to contribute your skills to.
Andrew Forbes: Yeah, for me, the two that are the creme de la creme of brands and that's Nike and that's Louis Vuitton. They’re consistent every year, everything they do, they're always at the forefront of the industry. And then you have the emerging brands. Some that I love are Pangaia, out of Japan. I think they're a great job in terms of sustainability, which is obviously a huge topic right now in fashion.
I'm very close with my friends who started a brand about four or five years ago, called Mad Happy out of Los Angeles, which is focused on mental health awareness. So, some of the younger brands I really like are ones that have a mission statement that I identify with.
Caitlin Forbes: Awesome. The brands that you feel like are doing things right, right now, are the ones that are supporting social issues. How does their marketing come off as genuine and authentic, while other brands are acting tone deaf to social issues right now?
Andrew Forbes: Yeah, I think it all starts with the people behind the brand and how they came about starting the brand that they founded. So, you know, Mad Happy is an example I always like to fall back on, one of the founders has had his struggles with mental health and I've known him my entire life. So, as he's gone about that, he said, how can I use my experiences to help other people?
He found the perfect marriage between clothing and fashion, is something he loved, and then mental health, paired those together to come up with the brand, Mad Happy to push the narrative around mental health. And I think doing it in an authentic way is really about the people that work there and not, you know, if you're someone like Mad Happy, you're talking about mental health, your brand's about mental health to then go over and come into another hot topic issue that isn't necessarily authentic to your brand, can seem a little disingenuous to the consumer sometimes.
Caitlin Forbes: Do you feel like there has to be any messaging that they put forth right now? Or do you feel like it's kind of better if they stay neutral? And if it's not, it's obviously something we support, but maybe not something that their brand highlights that they don't speak about as much in their marketing.
Andrew Forbes: Yeah, I think there’s a fine line. I think that you definitely see a lot of brands that jump on certain social issues and use them in their design and then try to ingrain them in the fabric and the narrative of the brand. And that feels a little disingenuous to me, it feels like they're trying to associate with something to sell garments and items, or whatever it may be.
However, I think that there's very tasteful ways or genuine ways for brands to touch on these very important social issues, whether it be we're doing 50% of the proceeds in this month will go towards this cause that we identify with. So, there are ways to go about it that are genuine, and then some others do it to just sell garments, to make money and you can kind of see through that.
Caitlin Forbes: And since you are the target audience for these brands over the last few years, what do you look for in the brand to meet and exceed your expectations?
Andrew Forbes: So, I think there's two sides of it, right? It's the brand, the coolness factor in what they stand for, who they are as a brand. And then the other side is obviously the quality of what they're selling. So, I'm always looking for that as well. It's the fit, the longevity of the garment that you're investing in. And, all of those things that you would look for, the quality of the fabrics and whatnot. So, I think there's two sides. And you've got to get both sides right to really have scalability and longevity in the business. Otherwise, you will get weeded out as a brand very quickly in today's retail landscape.
Caitlin Forbes: Yeah. There are so many brands in today's landscape, online and brick and mortar, that as consumers we find it hard to decide what brands are authentic and genuine and connect with us on obviously that level, as well is fit right, and are of the quality and caliber we want them to.
We've seen many brands over the past few years make mistakes, and whether that's labor practices in the supply chain or cultural insensitivity, can those brands get you back as a consumer and how do they go about that?
Andrew Forbes: I think it depends on what has happened. I treat every instance as its own individual case, right?
So, you bring up the labor practices and people want to reference Nike and Adidas and some of these athleisure, or sports brands have always been targeted for these labor practices. And, you know, I have some friends in Nike. So, I've spoken to them about this issue before, and they say that about 15 years ago, they changed their practices and raised their wages in Asia.
However, if they were to raise them any higher, then making the Nike garments would be a better paying job than being a doctor in some of these countries that they manufacture their goods. And so they wouldn't want to necessarily do that because they'd be taking away top people in the medical field from those jobs.
And there's a fine line of what people should be paid versus what, you know, us as Americans, we feel like minimum wage should be in our country. You kind of have to put it into context. There are obviously other issues where brands have taken stances in the wrong manner. And I think it'll really hurt their business. For me, one of the things that Nike, one of the reasons I think they're the best brand on the planet is their stance on social issues. The one I always look at is Colin Kaepernick; in 2016, when he kneeled for the anthem. He lost most of his endorsements during that. But Nike actually went out and did a whole campaign around him saying, we support you. And a lot of people that were against what he was doing were saying, this is going to be the end of Nike. They're going to kill their brand. And in fact, their sales went up 150% that quarter or something along those lines.
So, I find that they're always on the right side of history and that's really helped their brand, especially with the consumer that they focus on.
Caitlin Forbes: Hmm.
So, these brands stance on racial equality and other social issues really influence your decision-making process. Can you talk about how a brand has influenced, based on exactly what you were talking about what they believe in. Can you talk about how, in other ways, that's influenced decisions you've made in the past in terms of buying?
Andrew Forbes: Yeah. Another brand I really love, and I love what they're doing with their social platform, how they empower athletes is UNINTERRUPTED and SpringHill and the Robot Company, which is Maverick Carter and LeBron James. They've done a lot of partnerships with John Elliott. And my favorite one that they've done is More Than an Athlete with Nike. And they've put out a ton of garments with Nike. And I always go out of my way to support those, because I think it's important that we don't marginalize people in our society. We don't tell people that just because you play basketball, doesn't mean you're not educated on other issues. And you're not allowed to have an opinion on these other issues. I think people in those positions should be the ones speaking out. They're the people that set the culture for the youth today, they're the role models of the youth. And people look to them for guidance and advice. And they normally are actually very well informed on these issues. So, I like to support things like that.
Caitlin Forbes: I think that's great. And I think that the More Than An Athlete collaboration, for instance, is a great visual way to support what you believe in through the clothing that you wear. And I think moving forward, there's going to be a lot more of that. And Pangaia for instance, people now recognize the label and you can see the small black writing in the corner. You know what that is. And people are starting to connect that with sustainability. And I think that's so important too.
Andrew Forbes: And More Than an Athlete even did the, you know, two days ago, they just launched, they're working with Subaru to Megan Rapinoe again on equality and LGBTQ rights. So, they really try and touch on everything, not just the racial issues, but also the gender issues and whatnot. So, I think they do a great job touching on many different channels and making sure that all athletes are included and not just male athletes in basketball.
Caitlin Forbes: Yeah. We're going to need more brands like that, coming up with a strong foundation that can really produce change in the future. And I think what you spoke about; it's all about setting the foundation and having the right people and the right issues at the forefront of it.
Since this is a short episode, I want to switch gears a little bit to talk about your shopping behavior in COVID-19 throughout the pandemic. Can you just talk about how your shopping behaviors changed as a result of the pandemic?
Andrew Forbes: Yeah, absolutely. So, I'm traditionally, always an in-store shopper. I like going out, shopping in physical retail locations. Now I've made exceptions in the past, probably mostly just for Nike, because I know how it fits and they have a great and easy return policy. But other than that, I normally love going to the store and trying it on. My body type, it's very unique, so trying clothes on it's very important to me. And the touch and feel is very important to me. So, I've had to adapt during COVID to shop online. And one of my biggest issues, especially at Del Toro too, and footwear is difficult, it's the sizing charts. I'm constantly returning things, but I think it's figuring out some sort of universal sizing would be great going forward, especially in footwear. That was something I worked on in a past life but learning how to shop online has been difficult for me.
Caitlin Forbes: Basically, just buy more necessities online right now, or...
Andrew Forbes: Right.
Caitlin Forbes: You mentioned Nike, having some workout clothes to meet your lifestyle needs.
Andrew Forbes: It's very much athleisure right now.
Caitlin Forbes: Yes. For all of us.
Do you see yourself going back and shopping in person as things start to open up in Michigan or wherever you're shopping?
Andrew Forbes: I do. And I actually see shopping as a great social outlet for people. I think going to shopping centers or even street shopping provides that sense of, it's not too close quarters because you're in neither large malls where the ceilings are very high or you're outside most of the time and they're only allowing a certain number of people in the stores. So, I think that'll actually be one of the first social things that comes back in a safe manner. So, I see myself dipping my toes back in the retail shopping very soon.
Caitlin Forbes: Yeah, I think that surprisingly, a lot of us, we miss that connection with brick and mortar stores and with retail and getting that experience has become so important to all of us, and we crave it.
I think that we all have this desire to get back out there and really feel the clothes.
Pivoting towards technology and seeing clothes online. How do you engage with brands on social media and do you use platforms to directly buy? If you could just talk a little bit about how you use technology to shop.
Andrew Forbes: I'm not a huge technology shopper, per se. Just because when I buy things online, I find myself returning the items more often than not mostly due to fit issues. And that just seems to be a hassle for me. But I actually like to follow the people. I like to follow certain brands that A, I resonate with their social issues and their messages behind the brand or B, I like to follow the designers behind them and see their creative process. So that's, that's how I interact with brands online. But Virgil, Kim Jones, Matthew Williams. I, I like to follow the individuals.
Caitlin Forbes: Interesting. I think that we have such a spectrum of how people interact on social media and the common denominator is that everybody uses it for inspiration. Some people, ads are very targeted to them and they do a great job of getting them and introducing them to new brands. Whereas other people really just use platforms as a source of inspiration.
So, I really enjoyed this conversation today and it was fantastic. So thank you so much for being here today.
Andrew Forbes: Thank you for having me.
Caitlin Forbes: For our miniseries.
Andrew Forbes: I appreciate it. Thank you for having me
Caitlin Forbes: Amazing. Bye Andrew.
Andrew Forbes: Bye. Thank you.
Joshua Williams: Thank you for listening to this episode of Retail Revolution. A very special thank you to everyone who has helped make this podcast possible, our guests, our students and fellow faculty at Parsons School of Design, especially in such an extraordinary and unprecedented time. Our theme music was composed by Spencer Powell.
Be well and stay tuned for our next episode.
