Transcript - Massimo Volpe
Season 3, Episode 11
Conversation with Massimo Volpe, CEO, Global Retail Alliance
Conversation with Massimo Volpe
Joshua Williams: Retail Revolution a unique podcast that features in-depth conversations with guest experts in omni-channel retailing with myriad perspectives: technology, consumer engagement, data analytics, merchandising and more. We pay special attention to current sociopolitical issues and challenges and their implications on fashion retail, as well as opportunities to innovate and rethink retail's future.
Visit RetailRevolutionPodcast.com for more information, including full transcripts. And follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn @RetailRevolutionPodcast.
Retail Revolution is produced by Joshua Williams and hosted by Christopher Lacy. Both are assistant professors in the Fashion Management graduate program at Parsons School of Design.
Christopher Lacy: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Retail Revolution podcast. Today, we have Massimo Volpe who has more than a decade of experience in international retail organizations, learning and innovation, as a citizen of the world, working with major clients and agencies in Asia, the Middle East, Europe, and North America.
He is often requested as a speaker at several international events, such as NRF Big Show, World Retail Congress, APAS Brazil, and China International Retail Innovation Summit. He is currently CEO of Global Retail Alliance an international association serving the retail community around the globe. He is currently based between New York and London, but you can easily meet him in airports on his way to studying and testing the latest retail technology, or trend, somewhere around the world.
Hello, Massimo. Welcome to Retail Revolution. Thank you for joining us today.
Massimo Volpe: Thank you, Chris. Thank you for having me.
Christopher Lacy: Massimo, tell us about yourself. You have such an interesting career, and I'd love to hear how it all came about.
Massimo Volpe: Yeah, well, first thing, I mean you right, it's good to not be in airports these days, but I mean, I kind of miss it. I feel really like home when I'm an airport, that means that I'm going somewhere to scout and to see what's new, in a corner on the world.
About my past and my present. I mean, I've been working in this industry for such a long time that I cannot even recall how long it's been.
Everything actually started in Shanghai. I was ending my studies and then I thought, I said, "eh, I may need to scout and see what's going on in Far East." And then I decide to move myself to Shanghai. And since then I enjoy so much, I mean, discovering new things that then I didn't really have the chance to stop it. So, from Shanghai, I decided that to go to the other side of the world, I was already a European guy. I got an experience in Asia, so I said now I need to learn more from America. So, I went, to U.S. I moved to Chicago. So, I spent my first few years in Chicago. So, understanding more about the Midwest and then last eight years in New York. And then, right now, in this moment, I'm based in London. So, I think I kind of closed the circle.
How I was able to do all these things, because I had been lucky to serve on some of the major association of retailers around the world. I started with helping the Italian Association of Retailers. And then I moved to the U.S. and then spent my last five years working with the NRF, National Retail Federation. And inside NRF, I've been appointed as a chairman of a division that I have that is in charge of the relationship with all of the major association of retailers around the globe. So, I just been traveling around for the last decade, at least. And that's what made me like a citizen of the world, if we can say that.
Christopher Lacy: I think we can definitely say that.
Now, there is something pretty cool about what you are part of now. I know that you went to MIT or, you work quite a bit with MIT. And I think it's important to bring this up as we go through our talk today about retail and retail technology and what's happening in that space. So, what are you working on with MIT?
Massimo Volpe: So, what happened is that I MIT started this project about studying the voice commerce. I think I'd already been doing that for the last three years. And back in the days were really like the very, very beginning of smart speakers like Alexa, Google, and obviously Siri. And then they asked me to join this committee that was involved on understanding the impact of smart speakers on the voice commerce. So, I had the chance to be surrounded by some MIT professors; very smart people. And, I contributed with what I know about retail. And we're still working on that. That initiative became an organization itself, named Open Voice that, besides studying, most of the time we're studying the behaviors of the consumers; when they do shopping, using the voice. We are trying to advocate some opportunities around regulation of the voice commerce. Because, right now, I mean, I have to confess it is a wild west in that sector. I mean, we discover stuff that we didn't even know about.
I mean, one of the funniest things was the fact that we discover that we can not count how many requests of marrying Alexus with around the world. Because people had started to treat this is smart speakers as humans. What's the consequences of that on the commerce side? The fact that the moment that you, you start to think this smart speaker as a person, you start to trust them much more. So, you start even to collect suggestions they might give you. So, now you can imagine if they are neutral, it's all good. But what if they are developed by a specific organization that wants you to pick a product instead of another one. The influence that they can have, and the impact that it can have in the shopping decisions, can be huge.
Christopher Lacy: That's really interesting. And I think because I've been reading a lot about this, and this need for how voice commands will impact the retail atmosphere; and just from an omni-channel experience. Do you think that this is probably the biggest impact that technology will have over the next year to two years, especially considering a pandemic, and how do we want to use voice technology?
Massimo Volpe: Immediate term, for sure. When you think about that even an Amazon with it's a WholeFood stores and with new grocery stores that they have just opened up, they have several Alexas in the store. So, you can create a relationship; you can ask questions directly to the speaker, so you don't have to interact with the sales assistant, also when you are in the store.
But from the other side, voice commerce is giving an opportunity to make the commerce more compressive of the different occasions, in the sense that... let me give you an example. In the sense that if you are in your car, now in the new cars, there are smart speakers. So, that means even while you're driving, you can do shopping. So, you don't really anymore to go to the store. I mean, not even online with your phone, not even online with your laptop. I mean, it's a new level of interaction while you're shopping.
Christopher Lacy: This is really interesting in the way that I'm wondering, how are you seeing this effect the consumers in different regions around the world? When we were talking about omni-channel or online/offline experiences, years ago, there were areas where China was far ahead of the rest of the world. Then there are other parts of the world that are far behind the U.S. with how technology is integrated. But we also all engage with brick and mortar locations differently. We engage online differently and I'm wondering, as you've traveled the world, and you're talking about technologies such as this voice command and other things that are coming about, what are some of the major differences you're seeing across regions in the world and in consumer engagement?
Massimo Volpe: Well, my side it's an easy task because we use to study a lot the Asian region as the far ahead. So, it's still one of the best place when you can discover the next thing in retail especially because, I mean Asian customers, they have this easy relationship with the virtual world, that being shopping online, that being using WeChat, or other entities, or other tools in order to do shopping within an omni-channel experience. And they are so familiar with this kind of activities that makes them a perfect group to study, in order to see what’s the relationship that you can create between bots and humans, between what's the physical world and the digital world. Europe is quite behind and there's activity in Europe. People still rely a lot on the physical experience, on the physical relationship. Obviously in the last few months because of the COVID and everything that happened, I mean, the e-commerce world skyrocket even in Europe. But still the numbers are lower comparing to Asia. In U.S., and in Americas in general, they are like half-way. There are few things like the voice commerce, where the U.S. is far ahead. So, it's definitely the benchmark. And there are other areas where, still Asia is the place where to study the new innovation. But, I mean, it's a question of region. At the same time, it's also a question of generations. I mean, it's not the case that Europe is called the old world.
Christopher Lacy: That's true and let's talk about generations. Because, something you hear constantly is, how do we acquire the new consumer? What is the expectation of the new consumer as they engage with a brick and mortar location, especially around Gen Zers? When you think about it, and I read an article three days ago, and it was talking about how Gen Zers, while they are digital, physical experience is number one for them, also. And that's also just because digital is a part of their life. It always has been. I'm a millennial and I was an eighties baby, so I saw as technology started to integrate into my life. So, it was a big deal. I think for this generation, it's not a big deal. It's just something that should happen. And what is a big deal is what a physical experience should look like.
When you're thinking about this new consumer and you're talking to all these different brands and different companies, what is your advice on really getting the Gen Zers to connect in a physical space, while using this digital technology?
Massimo Volpe: Well, what we see is that, first of all, we are all human beings. So, we love to interact. We have to socialize. We love to be physical. So, this is something that belongs to the entire world. So, it's nothing that will never go away. The type of interaction with the Gen Z is very much different from the millennial, from the X generation. I'm probably the last one at the X generation. What we see is that the expectation of the Gen Z is very much different. They don't have patience in order to see things and wait for things that are much quicker when they are online. They prefer to have the same type of service when they're entering a store, as much as when they go online. Or they prefer, for example, to be recognized, not as a number, but as a person. So, when you shop online, it's much easier because between all the information that all these e-commerce can collect, I mean, it's easy. The second time you, go to do e-commerce is very easy that the website recognizes you as a single entity, a single person. So, they can speak your name. On the physical store, this is for example, one of the expectations that the Gen Z have. And together with that, obviously they prefer that brands and retailers are more aligned with what is a new way to stay in this world and to behave. So, if you not sustainable for them, it's not an option. They just don't see you. If you don't follow certain rules for a better living, a better behavior that you must have in this society, they just skip you. So, there are things that, for us, it was really like a way to integrate the new lifestyle for them is just the reality as it is today.
So, if you don't embrace this new way to interact with the society and to behave in the right way, I mean, they just skip you. So, there is no way that you can connect with them.
Christopher Lacy: You know, something I always think about is there was always a push of the digital experience and the online experience should be just like it is in the store. And then when you're in the store, you feel as connected to the online experience. And I want your thoughts on this, because something I think is, they actually should be different, because they're just different spaces. And instead of trying to make an in-store experience digital with screens and whatnot, why can't the in-store experience be what an in-store experience is supposed to be? And the e-commerce experience is what it's supposed to be? And the mobile experience is what it's supposed to be? So, I'd love to know from you, as we move forward, do you think that there should be kind of a separation in how we determine these channels? And of course, there being a connectivity, but really going, what is this experience really supposed to be? Instead of trying to make an experience like something else.
Massimo Volpe: Well, first of all, I agree with you that the experience should be different, but it cannot be less. So, if you're experience in a physical place is less than in a digital world. I mean, you are done. There is no way that you can create a good relationship with your customer base. So, you have to start from there and you have to build up something that is more than what they can find online.
The level of interaction, the level of opportunities of creating this relationship with your customer, in the physical world, is much stronger than the digital. I mean, so whenever you build up something in the real world you need always to rely on that. I mean, from the economic perspective and from the strategy perspective, remember that the cost of a customer in the digital world is much higher than in a physical world, for the simple reason that it's much easier to create a strong and loyal relationship when you meet someone in person, than when you're just behind a screen.
And then another point will make me agree with you with the fact that obviously if you create a physical space, that is just full of screens. Basically, you are creating a digital experience. I mean, your customers will not be very loyal. And we experienced that. We're doing a lot of studies in this way. So, you need definitely to create a unique experience.
And on top of that, you always have to remember that whenever a shopper coming in your store, that person expects to have a sort of a unique experience. So, they can forgive you if it's online, they might forgive you because online, they expect more to have an experience related to the price point to price things. But when they come in in a physical place, they prefer that what they feel, what they see there, is very much unique.
Christopher Lacy: Yeah, it's about unique experiences. And it really does go beyond product, right?
Massimo Volpe: Yep.
Christopher Lacy: So, when we talk about unique experiences, you actually mentioned Amazon earlier. And Amazon launched the Explorer platform, which I find quite interesting. I think it's really cool because they've tagged it as "the world at your fingertips." And it's a way for people to explore places that they haven't been, and definitely now we can't go everywhere, and we can't experience everything the way we used to. So, it made me think about like retailers. And is this something that retailers really should kind of look at and go, you know, if I have a brand, I have a store in Paris, I have a store in Milan, I have a store in LA. Would it be beneficial for me to create, through my platforms, this experience of, you experience our store in Paris and you experience Paris. And then if you click on Milan, you experience our store in Milan and what's happening in Milan. Could this be the start of something really interesting for retailers in the future? Has Amazon kind of ignited a fire? I think its kind of interesting and I'd love to know your thoughts about it.
Massimo Volpe: Again, I, agree with you. I mean, what Amazon has created, is a very cool initiative. And I'm very much intrigued and curious to see the results on that. And what really surprised me is that there's so much related to creating experience was coming from a company like Amazon, that, I mean, frankly speaking, they create a very poor experience online.
They always rely on price instead of something like a unique experience. But at this time, they've done something very much different from the usual So, um, I agree. It's a very interesting test. But probably it may have an impact. We see that in other sectors, it's having an impact. And I mean, you know, one of the first that has done something similar was AirBnB with the experience area. And, now they are pushing this area very much. They're thinking they may be balanced, even in terms of business opportunities, having the chance to virtually go shopping, for example, in some of the major capitals, like you mentioned, like Paris and Milan, with no need to really jump on a plane and go there. Also, because I mean, right now we are all stuck home. It can really be something very interesting. I mean, I've seen some similar activities with other initiatives, like the visual commerce, so creating FaceTime, think between the customer and the sales assistant, having someone that can really take you around and do shopping in different stores in another corner of the world, I mean, it's, it's really, it's really cool.
Plus, the farther, probably an evolution on that, would be creating a new category of virtual personal shoppers. I mean, you might gonna see in the future, like a network of professionals that are just based on cities, and then they are all connected. So, you just have to switch on with one of them and having them buying stuff for you.
I totally see that. I totally see a future like this.
Christopher Lacy: I do too, I think something that's interested me a lot is we're distant, but we're far more together now, because of how technology is. And I think of my favorite brands and I go every day, when I wake up, I don't necessarily want to dress the same way. I mean, it's about my mood and how I'm feeling. And how cool would it be for me to be able to connect with an associate that's maybe in Germany and they're going to show me like what's happening in German style and how to buy my goods in America that resonates to the style that's happening in Germany? Or the style that's happening in Milan, or the style that's happening in Paris and New York or whatnot.
I think sometimes we become very siloed. And we know that you dress differently based on regions. Like we all kind of have our different styles. Yes, there are trends that are there, but is there an opportunity for us to kind of be able to create global communities in a much more engaging way?
Massimo Volpe: Totally. I think that it's not only an opportunity to create a different level of engagement, but I think that it might be even the next step in order to give some new life to small shops. Thinking this way, I mean, now we have seen amazing numbers coming, for example, from Louis Vuitton, that has, maybe was the first one starting the visual commerce. So, the first one that gave to the customers, the opportunity to really like do a Zoom call, or a FaceTime call directly to the single shop where the customers want to shop. And you have your assistant. Maybe, you know them personally, because you've been there before. And that gave a boost to Louis Vuitton. And now, even in a situation like this in 2020, they are growing in numbers and in percentage that was a good surprise for the entire industry. But I think that besides that, I mean, the real opportunity might be really like to give to the shoppers the chance to scout stuff that they cannot find next door.
So, this is really like a way even to revitalize the small stores in different parts. For example, we all know how interesting is always doing shopping in Japan. Japan is always amazing for scouting new stuff, very different. But you need to go there to scout new different fashion clothes, something that you haven't seen yet in other parts of the world. What if you don't need to go there anymore? You just need to activate your connection there, and then you can do the activity for you. That will be amazing. I would totally do that.
Christopher Lacy: Yeah, I'm in for that, I think we got some time Massimo. And because you're the brilliant technology guy, I’ll let you handle all of that heavy lifting.
Massimo Volpe: Ok.
Christopher Lacy: So, you and I have something in common. And I want to ask you about it. I believe your favorite brand is my favorite brand, which is Brunello Cucinelli.
Massimo Volpe: Yes.
Christopher Lacy: And I say it as much as I can cause I'm hoping that like the team of Brunello Cucinelli hears that I am a huge fan of theirs!
Here's what I want to know from you. What is it that they do so well that you just don't feel like anyone else does? And I'd love to hear your thoughts about it because, and I'm going to share what mine are, but I want to hear what you think. What is it about that brand?
Massimo Volpe: Well besides the obsession for the quality of the products, I think that Brunello, as a person, I mean the good thing of these brands and this particular brand is that there's still a family owned. So, that means that you can really see the mentality and the philosophy of the one that has started it; you can feel it. So, this is definitely something that you can recognize in every product, in every message that you find coming from Brunello Cucinelli. But another aspect, and this again, is coming from, first, from the founder and then from the entire community that is part of this amazing brand, they never try to work against technology. They always wanted to embrace technology, but there's always a rule with embracing technology from a human aspect. So, what I mean, is that they always try to mix technology with a sort of human feelings. And that was something that really made this company very much unique.
One of the many stories that I collected from the guys working at Brunello, for example, the fact that he loves to invite all of the big tech guys, once a year, all together at the small village that Brunello Cucinelli owns, just to have sharing thoughts about the future of society.
That itself gives you an idea about what it he has in mind. So, he doesn't want to really fight against technology, but they want to embrace, giving to the technology a new meaning, new opportunities to create a more connected humanity that doesn't forget at the same time what it means to be human, to be real, a real person. That is something that you can feel anywhere, from stores to the single product.
Christopher Lacy: You and I are so similar in why we love this brand. And...
Massimo Volpe: I take it as a compliment.
Christopher Lacy: I do too, cause when, you know, I’m like, yeah. Look, there's two things they do that I appreciate. One, is when you go to their website, it is actually not about product. The first thing you see isn't product, it's not product driven. It's really bringing you into the village in which Brunello is made and from, and what it's all about. And then you move through into product. So, it's almost as if product is something that we do when we do it really well, and if you're here, then you understand that. But we want to tell you what the spirit is of our product. And I love that. I love that that's the whole underlying theme. Secondly, to your point with technology, what they do is, things just happen and as a customer, you don't know that it's happening, but you know that it is easy. And I think that is true customer experience. The customer doesn't need to know that these things happen. The customer just needs to feel the results of those things happening. And, I think a lot of time what retailers forget to do, is just that. They create things and they want the customer to know that they created it. And I think in the world of Brunello, they're like, you don't need to know what we did or what the behind the scenes of it is all about; you just had an amazing experience. And now you're gone. And now you'll come back again. And then you sleave, and you come back again. And I think that's brilliant customer experience. I think that's what it is at its best.
Massimo Volpe: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I have to tell you, I had the conversation with the chief digital officer of Brunello last week and we discuss about all of the projects that I have in place. He told me, he said Massimo, we have right now 66 digital activities that we are embracing that we're working on. But all of these activities are not made just to push up the purchase of a product, are made to create a better connection with our customers. He was using this example to make me better understand what they meant with that, is that for example, our call center is next door to my office because we prefer to have the people that are talking to our customers that are here next to us so they can tell us whenever they collect something from them, they can become an amazing suggestion for creating an initiative in order to find a better experience for our community. That is something that doesn't happen so often. Usually, all the call centers are way far from the headquarters of companies.
Christopher Lacy: It's true. That's very true.
So, I want to give you an opportunity to talk about, something, which is how you and I met, which is Global Retail Alliance that you are CEO of. You've done other things, you were CEO of Retail Hub, you've worked with startups, but Global Retail Alliance is new. And I'd love for you to tell our listeners about it and what it's all about.
Massimo Volpe: Thank you, Chris. So, basically I've started the Global Retail Alliance because I mean working with so many different association of retailers, I discovered that all of these associations that were amazing at the domestic level, but that was not an entity that could have connect all of the different sectors and the different geographies in one place. And I've always found that, I mean, I can say quite funny because I said we're living in a global world and we see, we see these days, we are definitely all connected. And the retail business is definitely global. So, something that has to be local and for the type of experience and maybe unique, but at the same time the scale is global. So, why we don't have a place, we don't have an organization where we can all come together, no matter which is our geography; no matter which is our culture; no matter which is the market where we operate; and actually can become a one-stop place where we can collect information crossing industries and crossing geographies. And that was, I mean, again, as a citizen of the world, I found a need first for myself, in order to regroup all of the opportunities that I've seen all around the globe. And that's why I said, okay, let's start something that at least can collect. And if you want to know more about what's happening in different regions, it might be a place to go and take a look.
Christopher Lacy: I think it's such an amazing initiative. I've enjoyed all of my engagement with Global Retail Alliance. So, I do urge our listeners to go to Global Retail Alliance, check out the amazing articles, amazing content. Keeps me on my toes.
Massimo, how can our listeners stay up to date with what you are doing, what's happening in your world?
Massimo Volpe: Well, if they go on the GRA.world, they can definitely stay updated with everything related to the Global Retail Alliance. Or they can, if they want to know more about me or they just want to write me anything, I mean, they can easily connect me on LinkedIn on a MassimoVolpe. Uh, very easy to find me. I always love to be engaged by anyone, especially if they're coming from different parts of the world.
Christopher Lacy: Massimo, first of all, I'm sorry I've ruined your last name every time I've ever said it. Volpe, there we go. It was so great to have you on the show today, and I appreciate your time and I look forward to speaking with you again.
Massimo Volpe: Thank you so much. Please, believe me, you didn't ruin anything. It's just because with the E at the end, you have to be Italian to to pronounce it well. I mean, I can translate that in English, the English meaning is fox. So, it might be easier to call me just the Max Fox.
Christopher Lacy: Okay. You should have never told me that. That's now your new name, The Fox.
Massimo Volpe: Yeah. Thank you so much for inviting me. I mean, I really enjoyed the time that we spent together. Thank you.
Christopher Lacy: Thank you.
Joshua Williams: Thank you for listening to this episode of Retail Revolution. A very special thank you to everyone who has helped make this podcast possible. If you'd like to support the work we're doing, please visit our show page at RetailRevolutionPodcast.com and click on the donate link. Our theme music was composed by Spencer Powell.
Be well and stay tuned for our next episode.
