Transcript - Xia Feng
Xia Feng: Retail Revolution is a special, limited podcast created specifically for "Retailing and Service Design," a unique course that is part of the Fashion Management graduate program at Parsons School of Design in New York City. Each episode features in depth conversations with guest experts in omnichannel retailing with myriad perspectives: technology, consumer engagement, data analytics, merchandising, and more. We pay special attention to the short- and long- term challenges and implications of COVID-19 and potential opportunities to rethink retail's future. Retail Revolution is produced by Joshua Williams and hosted by Christopher Lacy, both are Assistant Professors in the School of Fashion at Parsons.
Christopher Lacy: Welcome to Retail Revolution podcast, where we discuss all things pertaining to retail and service design. I'm your host, Christopher Lacy, and joining me today is Xia Feng, an expert on the movement of the China market and CEO of The How Consulting. Thank you so much here for joining us today.
Xia Feng: Hi, thank you for having me here. I'm so excited to have the conversation
Christopher Lacy: Me as well. You know, I have to say, I'm going to tell all of our listeners, you and I met a couple of years ago when you joined us at Barneys New York. And we clicked right away. We both have an affinity for meditation nature, life, energy. So, you know, when we started this, I knew that I wanted you on this podcast for multiple reasons. And I want to kick it off to you to start with talking about really your career trajectory, because I think that's quite interesting. And one of the reasons I wanted your voice on here with us.
Xia Feng: Sure. So, hello everyone. My name is Xia Feng in American way and Chinese it's Feng Xia. I'm native Chinese from Shanghai, but I lived, studied, worked in the us and Europe now almost 18 years.
Currently, I'm living in New York, but I always think myself as a global citizen. So, born in China have the whole meta world. I'm talking about my career. I actually got into; I didn't start with was fashion. I was trained as a journalist of first. Then as a, like an adamant, in China, back in Shanghai many, many years ago.
So, I started to work in PR and advertising industry first. That was the late nineties. So, I was managing accounts like gumbo, Unilever, Coca Cola. And at that time, I saw I was trained by those brands, very classic brand management. So that lasted for about five years. I learned a lot. And one day I decided that I want to go to see the country where all those amazing brands were originated, which is the U S.
So, I can, I went to UNC chapel Hill first for my MBA and it seems like I did a communication with the marketing. I want to explore a very different view. So, I actually, I was concentrating MBA. I was concentrating supply chain and finance. And it kind of rules. They can run it up my scale at that time.
And it made a lot of good friends. So I'm out of the business school. I got a job with Saturday Brand apparel cause they already had like brands like Hans, Champion. They owned a coach at some time. So, I was international business manager there. And it was really good opportunity because for someone who just came to the U S and who was, who just started in the. So, apparel industry, it gave me a very broad view of each step on the value chain. So, I understood how a decision on the upstream of the value chain, like what kind of fabric you use would impact on something very downstream like on packaging. So that was great experience for me. And two years later, I was recruited by a company which, which is called a VF corporation.
So, VF owns brands like the North space, bans, Timberland. They used Only and Wranglers. On and off recently at that time, they just formed a new department, which was called a corporate strategy. And that was 2008 when the financial crisis happened. So, you know, I love to explore different view and I said, yeah, why not strategy?
I would like to see what it meant. So, I went there, and I never thought I would have worked for a company for 10 years, because back in China at that time when people were switching jobs every two years, so I kind of was used to that. So, I really saving began for 10 years, amazing 10 years. But because I was, you know the nature of the job, we were more like interior, like internal commander or consulting kind.
So I was able to like work on very cool projects. One day, this spread the other day, the other, another brand, this region, another region, and also, so all kinds of different problems, a brand may counter over, it's different brand about the mental face. That was very fortunate. I was also able to move around in regions.
I started in Greensboro and North Carolina and, the company sent me to Hong Kong for almost, you know, 9-10 months to help them the VP of the president of Asia to look at some growth initiatives for Lee and Wrangler. Then I came back to the US I started work on work on some of your Kim projects.
And then I moved to Switzerland. This is where the European headquarters is. So, I was there for five years. I started with strategy, but very quickly I went into digital and eCommerce. When I left, I was VP of digital development and in Europe. So, I think after, you know, there's so many moons and a lot of bottles of autonomy and why I decided to come back to the US. By the way, I love wine. And, and I came back to New York and started was Barney's. I was Barney's, employee number one for international. And this where on Chris and I, we met. I was overseeing all the business outside the US and we decided to face one would be very digitally. And e-commerce first to raise Barneys awareness outside of US. It went very well actually at the beginning, but very soon I think Barney's encountered some very severe financial issues. And then, Barney's was brought by a different company last year at that time.
I always. I always wanted to do something on my own. So, when Barney's come have ended, my first reaction was now it's time for me to start something on my own. And I'm, you know, I always want to be a bridge between the East and the West, getting my background experience. So, I started as consulting the how consulting to provide a trust, a service to Western businesses and brands to succeed in China by bridging the cultural and operational gaps for them. So that's a long summary of my career directory.
Christopher Lacy: So that is an amazing, you know, career trajectory. And I want to focus in on it a little bit because our student cohort population is, 98% female, for this program. And we have 68% that are international with more than half of that coming from Asian countries or the continent of Asia. And I want to talk about your experience navigating the US market workforce. Switching your mentality for strategy and engaging with people. I mean, what is that like? I mean, I think there's something to be said for that, especially to a certain population who might be having the same experience you are having or want to understand how you navigated that experience.
Xia Feng: Yeah, that's excellent question. Sprung all kinds of different things in my mind. It was at the beginning. It was really not that easy because I think a lot of probably our students can relate to that for a foreigner to stay in the US work first, do you have all kinds of issues? like visa, work permit, these kinds of things.
I assume you've got over that on den very quickly there. I think,I at that time, I faced some I would say like big cultural challenge. I was, you know, quick enough to gain the hard skills at the work, but then very quickly it was very clear to me and to my boss. It was the softer skills, the confidence in myself, the communication skills.
How do I frame a question? How do I interact with, with people that mattered the most? And especially as, we're kind of like a internal mentor or consulting. And all the people I worked with on a day to day basis, they are like senior executives, C level executives or GMs brand presidents, or at a time, I didn't need to find that personal style that worked for me.
So I think for your students, now I can reflect back. I would say the biggest lesson I had at that time is that don't try to mimic others as an, as a following, they're working here. You know, we, we don't speak the perfect we're non-native speakers. We don't speak the perfect language. it's very easy for us to come full on a path that we try to be someone else.
Be the perfect person, speak perfect English. But that is your disadvantage. You can always improve, but you will never go into wing to be a perfect native speaker. And you'll never going to be way, you know, when this saying, try to be someone else. So, I went through a period of time just to search for that leadership style that is authentic and true to me. So I can be with myself and always better every day, and really try to learn more about communication skills and, you know, the thinking process of the Americans and to try to marry with my, Chinese roots.
Christopher Lacy: Shot. We could probably end this interview right now. And you just said so much in that.
No, we're not going to cause I want to talk to you about a lot of things. But I love that you said that about becoming someone else and really being yourself. And to be honest with you, look, I grew up in the US but you know, we all navigate things differently based on our differences that are very aware to us from either a young age or as you go into a new atmosphere where that difference becomes the forefront. So, you know, when I got to the point of going, I, I really do have to just love this spot I'm in, navigate it, leverage what it is I know from my personal experiences and make myself valuable.
And, and I, you know, you saying that it's exactly what I did. And it's nice to hear that from you as well. You know, when we look at businesses and we're looking at markets and here we are, where COVID-19. This pandemic that's happening. What are some of the strategies you're seeing retail companies deployed during this pandemic?
Xia Feng: Hmm. Yeah, there are a lot of common strategies or themes. I'll say, just name a few, like. A lot of companies are showing up their liquidity because it's at the core, it is a liquidity crunch. So, either like pulling down the credit line or it should be bounds or notes, like they, you know, backed by their real estate.
So, they are doing everything. Try to, you know, have as much cash in their hands. Because no one knows how long this would last. And then as same time on retailers and even the brands, they are cutting expense, either being laying off people, following people, or cut back, capex or delayed, projects. And didn't.
Another strategy when it comes to pricing is really big. There's so much inventory in hand now with all the store closed. So, people are slashing price. Now try to convert as much as possible, right? At the same time, everyone's tried to pivot online. So, if you are a business which has much higher percentage online, that is great.
But a, unfortunately a lot of the retailers, especially fashion retailers, like Nordstrom, I think had probably one third off of their revenue comes from online. I think Macy's, Kohl's probably even less. So. Yeah, pivoting online. It is what you must do, but at this time it's hard because first a consumer's mind is not, they're buying apparel as a special category, and the seconds for those traditional retailers.
You know, the infrastructure they have the strategy, the talent they have, it does not, they cannot ramp up these things fast enough to catch up online.
Christopher Lacy: I think that's a great point where it's online. I mean, really e-commerce was something that was there and constantly talked about to the point where people have the idea that it would break down brick and mortar to the point where brick and mortar wouldn't exist anymore.
But when you thought e-commerce now in the space, we're in. It has to be more than me going on it in this two-dimensional way and clicking on an item. And I think we'll see the rise of, you know, companies like obsessed, you know, AR where they're leveraging augmented reality. And there are brands that are already leveraging what they do, Tommy Hilfiger, Levi's.
And so, it no longer just becomes a two-dimensional eCommerce platform. I am now experiencing a store and a brand as if I were in a physical space. I think the, you know, the Macy's of the world where you have e-commerce that represented such a small percentage of your business. You now need to look to these startups or this technology to make yourself relevant.
Xia Feng: Yeah, I think that's an excellent point. I agree with you a hundred percent until today. If you look at eCommerce is still like, especially in retail fashion to be commerce, it's more still. It's a still two-dimensional space. There's no emotional connection. It's still like a huge catalog that consumer needs to go on and search for ever saying, well, just browse through pages after pages.
There are lots of innovations now, like in China, the live streaming was already big, but now it is accelerating. And the live streaming in China is very different from the live streaming in the US, it's not like Instagram kind of live. It is combined with eCommerce. Do you think about, this is almost like a TV, TV shopping, but upgraded into 21st century?
So, we have seen things the pandemic started in China. We have seen all kinds of businesses use live streaming to sell. So live streaming is e-comm at the same time. So, we have like restaurants live streamed, their chef cooking from the kitchen, a dish, and then it is live streamed in the restaurants Tumo still upfront.
So, while they were live streaming, the restaurant goer could literally. Sit at home and purchase a takeout on their TUMO store and have it delivered later. So like, things like this, like in China is, you know, it's kind of a unique, I haven't seen a lot live streaming here in the US because here live streaming usually for like e-sports or for gaming, but maybe this is something we'll see more and more in the U S as well.
Christopher Lacy: Considering, you know, the, the cultural, geopolitical differences. Do you think that impacts the ability of these strategies? Or do you actually, do you feel like, you know what, it doesn't matter. These strategies are universal one and they can apply in any region.
Xia Feng: Some of the strategies are more applicable than the others. Like for example, live streaming. I don't think its hundred percent optical because over there in China, the digital ecosystem is very different. We have those dominant, marketplace giants like Timo, like WeChat and they already are joined with the millions of millions traffic into their own channels.
So, live streaming in those channels automatically bring traffic and that even the conversion is small. And sometimes it accumulates to quite big cells, but I think in the US you know, Amazon is big, but a lot of the eCommerce brands still have their good, their own eCommerce website. So how do you take a concept, like live streaming in China and adopt here?
I think you cannot do it a hundred percent of copy. There needs to be, you know, true to the market and consumer preference here. But I think the aspect of consumers wanting more engagement to your point, it's no longer just reading information or seeing a stupid video. They want to have a real time connection.
What's the business like seeing, for example, that shoppable restaurant example, I just give, you know, we always want to see who is cooking my dish. Right. You know, like in the high end restaurant, you pay for a kitchen tour probably, but now, Hey, you are seeing who just cook the, your, I'm not, I feel for you, you know, for from that kitchen.
So, I think that aspect of engagement interaction is I think is the key in that. So how can US companies take that back and cross pollinate an idea and to make her work here in the U S
Christopher Lacy: I think that's a great idea because here you have to that point of just in the kitchen and food, and obviously this can relate to fashion. But, now there's a connectivity to who, the person that you never saw before doing something at mint, whatever it is that meant to you, your food, your clothing, or whatever that looked like. And so then once this is done and we're all engaging again, you do have a little more connectivity to this person cause you're like, I, you know, you were one of my points of interest.
When I was in self isolation. So now for me out of self-isolation, am I more connected to this brand? Am I more connected to this business because of what they did during that time?
Xia Feng: Yeah, exactly. I think that speaking about fashion and there are some local fashion businesses, took the initiative to have their like store associates’ live stream, some try ons and because the stores were closed. So, and usually live streaming. Before the pandemic was down by what we call like key opinion influencers. But now, because you know, all the stores were shut down. A lot of times the brands are tapping into their store associates and employees to be live stream holes.
So we like, I was watching the live stream of this local brand, which is called J and B Y John and phooey. They're our store associates.
Christopher Lacy: I love that brand.
Xia Feng: Yeah. Oh, you know, that looks great. So, they were like wearing masks and they're like normal people, but they also said on the live stream screen, like how tall they are, how much they are weight.
So, and I was reading some of the comments, people were doing there was like, actually, like people liked it because they you know, they said well, this is my motto, but you know, if they feel more authenticity net, because we're you know, every office we're not model. So we want to see how a normal person like us. You know, wearing a mask would look like in that specific outfit? So, I think there’s a lot of emotional connection. I think it does to your point, you know during the self-isolation, people are making very different connections with the brands. So, think about the John and boogie example, after people can go back to the store and if they find the store associate, who did that.
Live streaming at that time without a mask, you know how happy they would be at that time.
Christopher Lacy: It does. It changes the entire human dynamic through that level of authenticity. We will, as we talk about the Chinese consumer, when I think about the Chinese luxury consumer, the purchasing of the Chinese luxury consumer, I mean, we saw the decrease of that happening, you know, I guess roughly what it would be cute to have 2019. So we're pretty much anniversary-ing when the Trade Wars started to happen. And we saw this decrease, especially in the U S and in any region, definitely New York, then probably our West coast of the soft spinning of this Chinese tourist.
What do you think will happen now? Post COVID-19. Because, you know, you know, when I think about it, I think we'll become far more local with how we engage with fashion and retail and all things like we'll really focus on our local economies. So how does the U S market still engaged with that customer, knowing that this is a possibility.
Xia Feng: There are almost 420 million middle-class Chinese consumers who are still on the way trading up their life. So, I don't think that momentum would come to a stall because of pandemic. But, that said, I think there are a lot of headwinds for luxury brands. First, the tourist traffic that were in the stores, in Milan, in New York, in Los Angeles.
I personally, I don't think you will see the same level, coming back anytime soon. Like I remember doing sauce in 2003, it took almost nine to 12 months for people to fully regain the confidence to travel again. So, I think this is you know, something that the luxury brands need to prepare that how they can engage the Chinese consumers when they are not coming to, they're not traveling to an overseas store.
So, I think first is the domestic, the Chinese domestic market becomes more important for the luxury brands. So, you need to think about how you launch new product, how you look at a merchandising in China. Secondly, how do you reach to that customer and collect information? Because a lot of the brands, what kind of shocked this time, like suddenly and, they know it's full for luxury brand, a lot of luxury brands in China.
They are store associates a lot of time. Actually, I have, I had built personal connections to the frequent store visitors because you know if they have, they want some exclusive product or some new product, usually if they have good relationship with the store associate, the store associate probably would give them a call.
So, the store associates actually have the personal contact have the personal contact. Was there a VIP or frequent visitors? So, I think during when the outbreak happened, a lot of those store associates reached out to those buyers and customers using WeChat. Now think about this, right?
Like in the us, we rely on pretty much newsletters to reach out. In China, it's we chat. It's way, boy, and with was more math. So, we try to make more and more and more personal. So, I think for the luxury brands, no matte you know where they're headquartered, no matter what you have.
You join an office or not, no matter how you do your eCommerce, either you have your own website or on Timo, you have to think about how now from now, how do I kind of systemize the digital connection with my Chinese consumers. And there are many ways to do that.
Christopher Lacy: Okay. At least one way. Can you give us one way that you think that we can get to the… we are not sharing anything.
Xia Feng: No, there are many ways. I think one is, as I said, like we chat. So we Chat official account or like many program is on the front end. It's like, how people get to you reading formations buy something. But on the backend, it is a consumer data repository. So for brands, if you don't have official account, or if you are not considering chats, you'll need to get on it right away.
And don't think about this as just a communication channel. Think about this is the portal of your ECRN and the flow, the other for a bigger brand. You even need to think about, is there a way you could connect that database somehow was a global database? I know there are a lot of barriers in terms of regulating regulatory, like rules, data, privacy.
But you know, you need to start to think about those because luxury customers do travel as we all know. So, you probably want to know where they have bang, you know, in which of your stores globally. So those things should be all a digital roadmap for those luxury brands.
Christopher Lacy: Thank you. So that's the luxury Chinese consumer. And to your point that the middle class has grown and will continue to grow in that market. But then if we turn back and we go, okay, well let's look at the U S and the US fashion consumer. Do you think that they'll begin to value quality over quantity and in doing so bad impacts fast fashion brands, like an H &M, like a ZARA, after we kind of come out of this, this COVID-19 situation?
Xia Feng: I think there will be implications, but exactly how, because they are different forces, exactly how it is going to pan out. I think it's still to be seen, but going back to 2008, when the financial crisis happened, what we observed at, because I was just started at a VF corporate strategy team at that time.
And what we observed was the value equation changed. People wanted to buy less. It is how much, how much more quality can you provide at the price point I can afford either by better quality or that service. So that's different, you know, category by category. So, I do think on this pandemic on is a wakeup call to a lot of us.
We are rethinking, do I need them, that many stuff? And should I get better stuff in terms of quantity, but at a same time, you know we also have a very large unemployment rate now. So, I think the affordability right also goes down and how quickly can this recover? We don't know. So, there may be some trading down momentum at a same time.
So that's why I'm saying it is. It's hard to see exactly which force will come balance the other force. But I think in general, and you know I have seen a lot of trend report and people are talking about. No, we don't need that much stuff. And how can we do better coming out of this? And then the economy was the nature.
Christopher Lacy: I completely agree with you on all points. And I speak about the middle class. I think ad nauseum to most people and, and how. Honestly, fashion industries, luxury industry, we really need to focus on how to protect this group because once they lose discretionary income. It’s going to impact all of our businesses more than we really think.
And we need there to be an aspirational client. We need there to be this person who. You know, understands what a quality item feels like and and the desire to habit. At the same tim, you know, and I say this, whenever we talk about the conversation of sustainability, if you are a person who, you know, what average household income, you know, three years ago in New York state was 27,000 for a family in the state of New York.
You don't care about sustainability. You're trying to figure out just how to keep everyone in the family clothed and fed and sustainability doesn't become a thing for you, right? To your point where everyone is, is in a state of, I don't know if I'll even I'll have money, you're not looking for quality. You're trying to find what's the best. Like where, how far can my money stretch to get me the things I need.
Xia Feng: Yes exactly. So, I do feel to a point there is a much stronger demand for a better value equation at every price point. I think that's the challenge for a lot of department stores or retailers and brands in the middle.
If you are a me too, but not a lot of value added. And then you charge, you know, you charge, you know not expensive price. People will start questions there. Why am I buying this? What law do I get out of it?
Christopher Lacy: Right. And this is going to create a problem the rest of the year, because you know, to your earlier point and with other, people I've spoken to here on the podcast and other places, we know that the rest of the year, because of the inventory load will be a lot of discounting.
I mean, I can go on websites now just for home things. So, whatever. Things that just came out, that they're already offering 35% off, 40% off just to get people shopping. So, once we start down this path, you know, the, the coming back from it will be that much more difficult, but it's something you might have to do to move through that inventory.
Speaking of inventory, you know gives me the other thought of this idea of shared economy, business models that really came to prominence over the last, you know, five to eight years, you know, where we saw the rise of you know, the rent the runways, but now there's a fear of touching things of being around people.
What does, what do you think this looks like for those business models? And are we just going to rethink this.
Xia Feng: That's excellent question. I think the concept itself; a sharing economy has its longevity.
Christopher Lacy: Okay.
Xia Feng: Yeah. I think in a mix in the long run, because it's about not owning things where you do go to meet all of them all the time.
It's about doing better for the economy, for the nature. However, in the short term, like you said, there is a challenge, a short-term challenge because people don't want to touch just hygiene concerns. So, I think that is something, you know, business like Rent the Runway, they will have to overcome because if you cannot overcome this, you don't even have a business coming out of this.
Christopher Lacy: Right. And it's really going to be a lot of, you know, when I think of it from an operational perspective. And granted, you know shared economy businesses. I've always said, you know we you know, everyone says that they're better for sustainability and in that way, but I think, well, how much needs to go into cleaning this product?
So, it can be old, does impact the environment, but now it's not just going to be about cleaning the product it's going to be about when it is shipped to a new client, how is it going to be packaged so that I feel super competent, confident that this has no heebie jeebies or whatever that looks like, right?
Xia Feng: Yeah, exactly. I think that's a big challenge. But I think it's cause it's interesting that we're living in an interesting time of thing and I can think back in 2008, because Rent the Runway. A lot of like Everlane, a lot of those. Innovative business models we are seeing today. They spun off out of the financial crisis, you know after a couple of years off of that.
So, I think there is a tremendous innovation that it's going to come in your way. So, it may not be the Rent the Runway kind of model for shared economy for apparel, like the model we're seeing today. But I hope maybe one of your students in the audience would have a great idea to create a different model, which is also a shared economy for apparel, but in a very different way to address all of those issues.
Christopher Lacy: I hope that happens also. So, speaking of the future, What have you noticed? And are there any commonalities among the way consumers are behaving between the US and China that could really give us a positive outlook on the situation? Because, you know I think everyone is in a state of like disasters upon us and disaster will be long running, but I have to say there has to be opportunity here. Do you see any positives?
Xia Feng: Yeah, totally. Well I'm always come short term cautious, but long-term always optimistic person. So, I think there are a couple of things what I'm seeing here on one is this pivoting online to all full audit categories in industry. So how can you transform or digitize your business? In every aspect. To me that customer needs no matter online and offline, like in China, they say, O to O, and online to offline because that integration is happening much faster and easier from offline to online. I think in the US we're still talking about is Omni channel, because it is the case that here the brick and mortar industry, or the retail has a lot more history. So how do you connect together? So I think that digital transformation, I think is very positive on trend now. And I called it like pulling the future forward much faster than it was.
I think the second one is more about, have an extremely distinct point of view in your product and in the branding. We are seeing, you know, at least I'm seeing both in the U S and in China, like we just talked about, you know, when people have less money, or they feel less comfortable spending money.
Whatever they are buying. There needs to be something special. I think it's the same in China, right? A lot of the white-collar job probably is not impacted, but think about those people who working manufacturing well, who owned the small business in manufacturing, those people's income will be impacted.
So, for them, what is going to what they are going to buy needs to be you know, worthy every dollar they spend. So, I think for brands who mediocre or don't have a clear point of view will be going out. Whoever stays will be the one that is the most innovative and have clear point of view and can relate to customers.
And I think the third one I see is very interesting is the way we arrange of product. The just in time Buying. Right. So, we that the industry apparent industry was used to, like plan, a year ahead. You know, we design a year ahead and we are selling probably six months ahead, and then we are dropping like three months ahead.
We, so you're seeing like summer clothes when it's still snowing in New York. I think that will change. The constant inventory issue. Every time we're growing to this. So, I think I'm seeing a lot of the retailers and brands now are kind of re elevating this topic and consumers want that as well, because why do I want to buy a summer clothes when I'm still in the middle of a snow. Right? So those kinds of things, I hope it's going to transform the apparel industry and fashion industry make it truly a 21st century industry, because what we are doing now is still, you know, kind of the, a hundred year industrial, industrialization model.
When nodding the 21st century model yet. So that's why I think there are a lot of positive outlook there from digital transformation to have a distinct point of view in merchandising and marketing all the way to the backend supply chain. How do you arrange product? I think that all of those things happen. I think we have much better future.
Christopher Lacy: Thank you so much. I absolutely agree with you on the third point in so many ways, I think I'm so tired of seasons and, and as the desire for something is so buy now, you know where now we really don't need it. And it is an antiquated process of how we look at it.
So, I want to close this out by asking you if you could let our listeners know how they can find out what you're doing or get in touch with you. If they have questions, if there's LinkedIn, a website for the how consulting, how can they know what you're up to.
Xia Feng: Sure, you can always find me on LinkedIn saying, and if you search my name, phone X I A F E N G. You will find me and then, I'm working on my website. So, it will be a prawning. It will be www.HowConsulting, how is H O W dot consulting? So, I'm very happy to, keep and engage in the conversation with you and your students. As always said, I love to talk to young talent and to help them in any way I can.
Christopher Lacy: Thank you so much for your time today. We wish you continued success and even more success for the launch of your brand, your consulting brand, and we just appreciate your time and your knowledge. Thank you so much. And we look forward to speaking to you again.
Xia Feng: Thank you, Chris. I enjoyed it.
Joshua Williams: Thank you for listening to this episode of Retail Revolution. A very special thank you to everyone who has helped make this podcast possible, our guests, our students and fellow faculty at Parsons School of Design, especially in such an extraordinary and unprecedented time. Our theme music was composed by Spencer Powell.
Be well and stay tuned for our next episode.
