Transcript - Meghan Houle
Joshua Williams: Retail Revolution is a special, limited podcast created specifically for "Retailing and Service Design," a unique course that is part of the Fashion Management graduate program at Parsons School of Design in New York City. Each episode features in depth conversations with guest experts in omnichannel retailing, with myriad perspectives: technology, consumer engagement, data analytics, merchandising, and more. We pay special attention to the short -and long- term challenges and implications of COVID-19 and potential opportunities to rethink retail's future. Retail Revolution is produced by Joshua Williams and hosted by Christopher Lacy, both are Assistant Professors in the School of Fashion at Parsons.
Christopher Lacy: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Retail Revolution. I'm your host, Christopher Lacy, and today joining me is Senior Executive Recruiter at The Bowerman Group and creator of Hiring Lab. Today we have Meghan Houle with us.
Hi, Megan.
Meghan Houle: Hi, Christopher. So great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Christopher Lacy: I appreciate you making the time. I know it's been busy. It's been crazy, but I think this is such a great conversation for us to have today on career opportunities and what that looks like in this space.
But before we start, could you tell our listeners a bit about you.
Meghan Houle: Sure. Sure. So, as Christopher mentioned, I work with the senior executive recruiting firm The Bowerman Group. We place talent all across North America, in various industries, across luxury and specialty and retail and wholesale and corporate. So, really cover a lot of different channels and platforms. I've been with this group for about eight years. However, coming from the retail industry, about 20 plus years, all in, I come from stores. I know what it takes to be in the field and in the service element piece of the business. So, it's a real pleasure to be able to take my experience on this side and share my passion for recruiting and talent and people and finding amazing candidates. New career journeys. Yeah, so that's a little bit about me and what we do, and I'm happy to be here again and sharing my insight during this moment, where I think there's a lot of uncertainty, but a lot of positives that will come out of it as well, I believe.
Christopher Lacy: And we agree with you. I think that's the thing, is out of crisis, definitely comes opportunity. And I want us to jump right into that opportunity, because I know there's a lot of fear. I mean, we all have anxiety, the job lists, the unemployment rate has skyrocketed. I mean, the numbers keep climbing as we look at it every day. We have more and more businesses that are having to rethink if they'll even be in business in the next, you know, three months, six months. So, I want to ask you, how has COVID-19 really changed the way organizations are viewing candidates at this time. And does that mean it's, it's much more difficult for candidates to get noticed?
Meghan Houle: Yeah. I mean, it's an interesting question, sort of two parts here, for sure. I think at this point, you know, and in speaking with a lot of my clients that come from the big global brands that are very recognized out there in the world, to some of the smaller up and coming brands, startups and whatnot, you know, every organization is really taking a moment to reevaluate and realign talent. And, I think the main challenge, obviously that we're seeing, with some reduction in positions, and then also on the other side of it, applicants that are applying for these positions that, you know, have really increased. So, I think it is more important than ever to really stand out.
And it's really a multistep approach. I think from a candidate side of things, you know, really critical to make those connections with the companies that you are interested in, whether, you know, it's using your network to be introduced via LinkedIn or a former colleague or friend. And when really reaching out to those hiring authorities or company contacts, really being specific. I think another way to make sure that you're noticed in the right way is ensuring that your LinkedIn profile, if you have one, and I think everybody in this day and age really should. It is a great platform for people to stay connected and to be noticed. I mean, I think right now, more than ever, you know, HR and talent teams have had time to look at you to get noticed. And also, you know, a lot of compassion at this time where they understand, you know, many people have been furloughed or laid off.
So, any friends and network connects that you can get to help you out and really making sure you have the skills and successes updated on that profile for LinkedIn, and also your resume, ready to go is really important. And there is a function on LinkedIn, that you can, sort of highlight that lets recruiters know as, you know, kind of from experience with me, we have a special part in LinkedIn that we can use as like a search function. So, a lot of times when candidates click "open to opportunities," which is a button I think, on the LinkedIn profile, you really stand out. You know, and, and it almost puts you in a different bucket where without screaming on LinkedIn, like I'm laid off or unemployed or furloughed, in a way it really kind of puts you in that bucket of like, Hey, I'm open, I want to listen to new opportunities and, I think that's where it's really nice to be able to put yourself, and get noticed, in a very professional way. I know a lot of people right now are doing focus groups and professional groups, bringing people together from all over industries to help each other out. So, I would say, to get noticed, really applying your skills and your network connections is super important at this time, for sure.
Christopher Lacy: So, you brought up the resume and LinkedIn, and I think a question that a lot of listeners have is, what should my LinkedIn really say and what should my resume really say? Like, should they be exact mirror images of each other, or should LinkedIn be the highlight reel and the resume is the real deal, or is the resume the highlight reel and LinkedIn is the real deal?
Meghan Houle: It's a great question. And one that absolutely comes up often. I always say LinkedIn is a great way to almost have like a business card, a snapshot of who you are, your key successes. Absolutely. make sure you have a professional photo up there, correct job timeline orders, education, any other volunteer or any other things that you've been involved in. Recommendations, sometimes we'll have on LinkedIn, which are great.
But, I think it's really important, to make sure that it's super updated and relevant and current, because they'll tell you a lot of times hiring authorities and myself going through LinkedIn, you know, you're connecting with the candidate and they're like, Oh, we haven't updated, you know, in five years it's been five years. I'm like, Oh my goodness. You know? And it just really looks, you know, yeah! Same goes with resume too. You know, I think side by side mirror, it's great when, you know, you are in the moment that you have time to make sure you're both keeping them super active, but really using LinkedIn for all the most important information, creating a great little bio about who you are, keeping in your bio, your direct email or phone number, so that's something doesn't necessarily have to be a connection with you to be able to see that. So, like I said, a little business calling card. And then, going through your job moments, having two or three bullet points is great. You know, having some keywords in there, that makes you searchable kind of based on your job or skillset, or that career that you're looking to get into is really important. And that's a whole nother conversation and a whole nother class training we could do Christopher. But really, you know, I think that quick snapshot, super tight updated, really professional is important.
And then your resume, I think a resume can be so interesting because you can have multiple resumes and ones that you can have that are actually specifically tailored for certain jobs that you are attracted to or want to apply for. And that can come from taking the time to search jobs, indeed, LinkedIn printing out those job descriptions, circling the keywords in them, you know, making sure they align with your resume, so if you're applying online, you kind of get picked up through the HR algorithm system. But, just in general, really tailoring your stuff skills to be able to speak to what that job profile looks like. So your resume can be sort of a working document. But, I think once you really get your LinkedIn set, as long as you get a new job and you continue to update it, honestly, you can kind of, you can let that alone, you know, let LinkedIn do its thing for you.
The resume, I would say is definitely more of the working active document, you know, that you can really kind of tailor, as you go along in your job search, but both very critical to have, and definitely important more than ever, now especially, to help you get noticed, I would say is keeping LinkedIn really polished and professional.
Christopher Lacy: There's so many people right now who have been furloughed, there's so much happening in the US and then on a global scale, and you have people who really have plans and desires to move to another country or, start working in another country. And then you have people that wanted to come here in the US and work. Do you think this is a good time to think of applying for jobs outside of your home country?
Meghan Houle: Yeah, It’s probably a more tougher time than normal, to be honest. I know with a lot of the hiring freezes, at least here in the US, some of those big global companies that maybe are looking at candidates overseas that absolutely can support visas and absolutely do. They're having a moment where I think it's. It's a little bit of a reevaluation. It's just a moment. I don't think it's something that's forever, so naturally get people kind of down and out on that, but I think it's just about being strategic, going back to being noticed, is something that you really want to do, coming to the US and getting a job here, really connecting with the right people in those certain organizations to stay in touch with them, and share your interests. And be able to hopefully connect again when the right moment is there.
And then I think for us here in the US, going overseas, it seems like what we're doing. I mean, a lot of these countries are opening in their own different timelines. Like, I have friends that are in Paris working with LVMH, things are slowly starting to come back. I think even more advanced than we are right now. So again, I think it's the inquiries, really connecting with these global brands and connecting with the right HR partners. I mean, I can't say no because I'm not sitting behind their desk, but I would say if you take the right steps to connect with the right people and share your interests, you never know. I mean, those programs absolutely exist. My friend from LVMH is somebody that was in the U S and then was able to be transferred over to Paris and now works on Champs Elysee, which is amazing right? So, I think it's just all about knowing where you want to go, being super strategic about connecting with the right people and just being patient at the moment.
Christopher Lacy: When you talk about strategic steps? I think we've all had an experience, and if you haven't and your listener, good for you, but we've had an experience where you're doing the job search out of absolute necessity. And I mean that in the terms of you don't have a current job and you've got to find something. What should the strategic plan really be for you? Because, I think a lot of times you do a lot of crazy things out of desperation, right? So, I've got to find a job and all of a sudden, like you're, you're, you're, you're doing so much. So what, what is it at least two things that a person needs to do strategically, one and two, to really get them moving in the right direction?
Meghan Houle: Yeah. I mean, I agree with you and was talking about this earlier this morning, needing a job and needing to create income at this moment, is where a lot of people are sitting. I think that you really want to reach for something similar that you've had in your last job and know that dropping that ego piece, it may not be the exact dream career, next step, but really adapting your expectations, and finding something similar that you can really translate your skills and functions to, that will get you at least secure to take that next step in finding something new as you navigate further along. It is so much better to start an exploration from a place of security.
Christopher Lacy: OK.
Meghan Houle: I always say, you don't want to be coming from a place of emotional stress and just taking any low hanging fruit job and whatnot, you know, I think there's a lot of things that you can do that can apply your skills, but get into something, maybe know what's not your forever, and give yourself a place to explore, once you have that security and you're kind of coming from maybe a bit of a better emotional state.
Christopher Lacy: Well, a lot of people I think, would think that, if I send my resume out to 50 companies, somebody's got to reach back out, right? And, so the idea is, is like I'm going to cast the wide net. Is that a smart strategy?
Meghan Houle: I don't believe so, because I think the retail industry is really small and not only does it show maybe multiple hiring authorities that could be connected, a fact that you're just kind of scattering. But, also too, giving yourself a little schizophrenic moment, it's like, oh my gosh, you know, it's gonna be okay. I think taking a moment of clarity, knowing we are not alone in this, and really responding to a reality there are a lot of people in the same place. And I can tell you, seeing it come in, at The Bowerman Group where, you know, we have ten candidates that will apply to ten jobs that we have posted on our website. And we're like, wow, you really think that you're qualified for all these positions, you know, looking at your resume? And kind of again, because it was sort of like a job search cringe is I absolutely would not, again, come from a moment where you're in a reactive place. I think that, maybe ten jobs you can absolutely make what friends and coaches of mine in the industry call, a Magic 20 list or a Dream 100, running down those amazing roles that really excite you, hitting a very strategic ten per day or five per day, you know, giving yourself time to redirect your search if you need to. I absolutely would, would not just throw your resume out there. It's a small industry, you're going to feel schizophrenia. You're going to look schizophrenic and I think giving yourself a moment of clarity and pause, and really doing the right things that are going to set you up in the right direction is the best way to go at this point. rom our experience, and what I see on a daily basis, still today that I'm trying to guide candidates through.
Christopher Lacy: Would you say that that's of mistakes that you see people make, that's kind of the bigger one, where they're applying for everything they think that they have the skillset for every single job? Or, is there some other common mistake you see candidates making that, it gives you a cringe and you're like, gosh people got to stop doing this?
Meghan Houle: Yeah, on top of applying to everything, I feel like say out of your ten to twenty outreaches that you may do, and again, you know, applications, it doesn't need to start there. You know, you can start with connecting with network, LinkedIn and hiring authorities to getting noticed. But, once you do that, and you get that response and you get that email you're like, yes, today is the best day ever! Please prepare yourself. Preparation is key to everything. You know, making sure that you do your research on the job, you know, a lot of people come from a moment of excitement and like, I got this and maybe you haven't interviewed in a few weeks or five years or whatever, take the time to practice, do what you need to do to get yourself really set up for the interview and the process. The second is once you do get into the interview process, the followup, thank you notes. Kindness is contagious. And I think something we all need right now. Really the lack of followup sometimes drives me crazy where, I don't necessarily say we chase down candidates for thank you notes, but it is important to thank somebody for their time, however the conversation goes. I think that's one thing that when don't hear somebody kind of following up, I'm just like, Ugh. Okay. You know, it's just, it's easy. It's simple. It's something that I think is really appreciated coming from the HR side, I know some of my clients, they look forward to those thank you notes. And you can kind of leave the lasting impression beyond your interview.
I would say the last thing is spelling errors. Grammar. Have a second set of eyes with any thing that you do. Document. you know, that, that definitely is something that is a little cringe-worthy. Copying and pasting "thank you notes" from the web or anything, you know, please just don't do it and we've seen it. Oh yeah. We've seen it all. I will tell you those little Apple phones can autocorrect a lot of special words. So, you want to be careful with that and try to do things from like a laptop and a PC.
And then the last thing again, just making sure all your information is updated, that LinkedIn is updated. That's your calling card, if you're applying to a job, what's that HR person gonna immediately do once they see your application, they're going to Google you. They're going to go on a LinkedIn search, you know? So, you want to make sure that you have everything updated and relevant cause you don't want to get on the phone or in a video and say, Oh yeah, I haven't done that in five years or I haven't been here. So yeah, I would say those are some cringe-worthy things and hopefully some inspo to share, you know, for someone in a moment that can do some actual steps to maybe correct, or at least to gain some insight as to how do you get noticed in the right way? Again, going back to our message.
Christopher Lacy: Yeah. I think when you, when you bring up the topic about preparing for the interview, I think a lot of times people think that it means only preparing about the information of the company or the role.
Meghan Houle: Mhmm.
Christopher Lacy: What a lot of people forget is you aren't always constantly interviewing, right?
Like, you're at best interviewing maybe once every two years or so, so
Meghan Houle: Yeah, yeah.
Christopher Lacy: We aren't really in the practice of being able to speak about ourselves in a professional way
Meghan Houle: Mhmm.
Christopher Lacy: And we get hung up with certain things and I often tell people I'm like practice talking about yourself in a professional way and what that feels like and what that looks like, and really be able to sit down and go, if I were writing myself a review, what would I write in that review? And then you leverage that for how you will interview.
Meghan Houle: Right.
Christopher Lacy: Because, when you do a self interview, you're like, this is what I do really well. This is what I would like to improve on. This is how I believe other people see me. And I think those are three things that if you're preparing to go on an interview, you have to be able to answer those three questions.
Meghan Houle: Right. Yeah.
Christopher Lacy: And, if you can't do that, then, then there's a chance you won't succeed in that interview process. I want to ask you about skillsets. When you think about your candidates that you've had across your eight years,
Meghan Houle: Mhmm.
Christopher Lacy: What is the one thing you've noticed that candidates have that seals the deal for them every time?
Meghan Houle: Well, I would say, it really comes down to obviously making a great impression in the interview process, going through the list, checking all the boxes, like you just mentioned Christopher, being very specific to your accomplishments and what you truly believe, you can bring to the table.But what really seals it? It's the culture fit, having a candidate that has done the research on a brand that, blows away a C- level executive, with knowledge of their company, just not even being in the organization, but doing the homework, and knowing their, why. Why do you want to work here? What's drawn you to this organization and just overall being somebody that a team wants to work with. I think in this day and age, the skills piece is amazing. Those are tangible, but the intangible is personality, energy, passion, really, seeing yourself as a part of a team. And I think it's so important in this day and age, where a lot of hiring authorities are probably gonna take less risks and also to, you know, from a people point of view, wanting to bring people in an organization that they know can really make an impact in these critical roles. I mean, a hiring authority is hiring you to solve a problem that they have in an organization at whatever level that position may be. You're getting hired because you're saying I have this, I can solve your problem. You know, here's my skills and expertise. But at the end of the day, if you're not a fun person, if you're going in there, like a Negative Sally, you know, saying what's in it for me, talking about, you know, crazy things in the interview and it almost like feeling like sometimes I think people go in and they're like, Oh, I'm too good for this role, you know, kind of throwing through that energy. That, it's like the worst thing to do. So, I think what really, really seals it, you know, after you had all those steps is being that culture fit and showing someone that you really want to work for the organization and being authentic about it. Yeah. I don't know if you agree. Cause I know you've seen a lot, throughout your time too, but who do you want to hire? Or if someone's sitting in front of you, you know, someone that you really feel wants to work with you. Right? It's so magical when that chemistry is really there.
Christopher Lacy: Well, I think that goes back to your point that we made earlier, where you don't cast a wide net, you really should focus and hone in on where you want to work, who you want to work for, because it gives you the why you want to work for them. You know? And, I've met with a lot of people and I've met with people who absolutely had the hard skills to do the job, but I could tell they lack the soft skills. And then I had people that came in that did not necessarily have the hard skills, but they had the soft skills, which means that they had the ability to adapt.
Meghan Houle: Right.
Christopher Lacy: And they had a desire to learn, and they had a desire to learn because they had a passion for the brand I was working for, they understood it. And I think what was really cool is talking to people that didn't just only understand the brand I worked for, but they also understood how that brand was positioned in the competitive landscape. And that's something! When you're meeting with somebody and they're like, right, I love this brand because compared to this and this and this, and you guys are doing this compared to this, I'm like, wow, like you get it.
Meghan Houle: Yeah.
Christopher Lacy: So, final question is those who are looking for a job and even those who are looking to transition, cause there are some people that really are like, one thing that COVID-19 may have shown me is, in slowing down, and said, I'm not doing what I enjoy doing and I want to transition.
Meghan Houle: Mhmm.
Christopher Lacy: Can they be hopeful at this time?
Meghan Houle: I agree, a hundred percent. Yes. I'm going to put some good energy out there. Listen, I'm going back to it, I think it's a very interesting time to pivot a career, knowing a lot of people, maybe listening to this, been laid off or furloughed. It's absolutely a time of self awareness, self enlightenment, a chance to get yourself re-energize, reevaluate your life choice. Almost seeing this as giving you a shot at pursuing maybe another dream, you know, and really believing what is not, what is lost is not irreplaceable. So, I think it might require stepping a little bit out of your comfort zone and seeing the bigger opportunity, but whether you decide to stay in your industry, you may have to pivot a bit, but a lot of the skills that you have, I'm absolutely positive can transfer into other jobs and functions. It might be a bit of a pause, if you really want to try to change industries or functions, you know, that may require picking up additional skills or, or actions. But, I would say that there are a lot of people in the same place. HR teams are certainly hiring again. They have compassion at this moment. We are too excited to be talking to candidates out there that want to make this pivot, and maybe you've had a self enlightenment to do something different.
Be resourceful, you know, you certainly have control over your life. If it's something where you want to maybe use this moment to become an entrepreneurial person, pivot your career, just consult, start your own business, you know, whatever that is, apply your skills and work to figure it out.
And if I can leave any sort of inspirational moment, in this is, truly believing that there is something bigger that is awaiting you, from maybe what is gone, and really believing that having faith, staying positive, don't give up reaching out to people in your network, having mentors, using all the resources at this time. It absolutely can be done. Going back to all the points we make: you being super strategic, when you're really finding those passions, following that path and know that certainly it is possible.
Christopher Lacy: Thank you, Megan.
Meghan Houle: Yeah.
Christopher Lacy: So, Megan, how can our listeners keep abreast of what you're doing or reach out, for...
Meghan Houle: Sure.
...any information.
Yeah. So, we obviously have a website where we do keep active positions, posted at www.bowermangroup.com. Also, feeling free to connect with me on LinkedIn, at Meghan Houle, which will have all of my information, email or specific phone outreach, I'm here. I'm always willing to take intro calls and appreciate the outreach if there's any point that is meant for us to serve right now. It's this moment and we're happy to be able to provide guidance in this time. So check out our website, check me out.
Christopher Lacy: Awesome, will do!
I will definitely get back to you. And I am looking forward to hearing from, from some of the listeners, hopefully. So, don't be afraid to reach out.
Thank you. And I want to add you can also access some of the content and materials to assist you in your job search that Meghan Houle has created through her Hiring Lab series, RetailRevolutionPodcast.com. Click on the blog and the information will be there for you to review. And again, you can always reach out to Megan.
Thank you everyone. For listening to this episode of Retail Revolution. Please feel free to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, TuneIn Stitcher or Spotify. Thank you so much.
Joshua Williams: Thank you for listening to this episode of Retail Revolution. A very special thank you to everyone who has helped make this podcast possible, our guests, our students and fellow faculty at Parsons School of Design, especially in such an extraordinary and unprecedented time. Our theme music was composed by Spencer Powell.
Be well and stay tuned for our next episode.
