Transcript - Jeanette & Glenda
Joshua: [00:00:00] The Retail Revolution is a special limited podcast created specifically for "Retailing and Service Design," a unique course that is part of the fashion management graduate program at Parsons school of design in New York city. Each episode features in depth conversations with guests, experts in omnichannel retailing with myriad perspectives.
[00:00:22] Technology, consumer engagement, data analytics, merchandising, and more. We pay special attention to the short and longterm challenges and implications of Covid-19 and potential opportunities to rethink retail's future retail revolution is produced by Joshua Williams and hosted by Christopher Lacy, both our assistant professors in the School of Fashion at Parsons.
[00:00:47] Christopher: [00:00:47] Welcome to a very special two-part episode of Retail Revolution podcast, where we discuss all things pertaining to retailing and service design. Over the last five weeks, as part of the "Retailing and Service Design" class, we test our students with completing a retail and service design analysis of any brand of their choosing. They were then to present a detailed Covid-19 strategy for their selected brand with considerations around technology, merchandising, operations, and customer experience.
[00:01:18] Four students were selected as having presented top-notch strategic plans. And we have our first two here today to discuss their strategies and views on passion retail's future. Welcome to the show, Jeanette Gong and Glenda Widjaja.
[00:01:33] How are you?
[00:01:34] Jeanette: [00:01:34] Hi.
[00:01:34] Good.
[00:01:34] Glenda: [00:01:34] How are you Chris?
[00:01:35] Christopher: [00:01:35] Good.
[00:01:36] Glenda: [00:01:36] Thanks for having us.
[00:01:38] Christopher: [00:01:38] I am so excited about this. I think when we began this whole situation, as Covid-19 happened, and we were thinking, what could this experience look like for our students, and what kind of project we could do...we kind of didn't know that this would be it, but I'm really excited that it is because, you know, it's really important that we're able to give you guys also a voice to talk about what you think about retail and its future.
[00:02:05]I want to start this off with our listeners getting a chance to know more about each of you. So, Jeanette, will you talk, just about your background and what made you want to join the MPS Fashion Management program?
[00:02:18] Jeanette: [00:02:18] Sure. So, hello everyone. My name is Jeanette Gong and growing up I always knew I'm interested in fashion. I remember when I was young, the most exciting activity for me was following my parents to shopping malls or outlet stores on the weekends. However, it didn't really occur to me that I could take a fashion as a professional career, because no one in my family or anyone that I knew really worked in the industry. So, I actually did marketing and communications back in college and in my junior year, I got accepted to an internship opportunity at this fashion PR and project management agency, where I really got to work with several top tier luxury and streetwear clients. And then, that was for the first time I realized I was excited about waking up to work. And, then the idea of working in the fashion industry just naturally came up. So, in speaking of joining this program, cause I always felt like compared with a lot of creative minds in the fashion industry; I am always more logic-driven and more realistic when it comes to business. So I decided it would be perfect for me to work with some designers and brands to really optimize their business solutions, and that's why I really want to get most knowledge out of this program.
[00:03:44] Christopher: [00:03:44] That's awesome.
[00:03:45] Glenda, how about you?
[00:03:46] Glenda: [00:03:46] So yeah, for me, how I got interested in fashion was after watching a documentary, it's called Seamless about the first CFDA awards, and it was, I think I was in the sixth grade and I told my parents I wanted to be a fashion designer and I've been working towards it ever since. So, a couple of years ago I actually graduated from the Parsons BFA Fashion Design program and I was working for a year and a bit in the industry as an assistant designer. And I quickly figured out that design is just a small portion of running a fashion brand and fashion business. And I was really interested into understanding all the different, parts that I only have glimpses of when I was working. So ,I went back to Parsons and see what I can learn and the MPS program was there and I was really excited to be a part of it.
[00:04:43] Christopher: [00:04:43] Wow. That's awesome. I like both of those stories.
[00:04:46] So, I want to get into, some nuts and bolts about, the brand new, chose to analyze and, and really wanting to understand from you why you chose those brands. So, Glenda, tell us about your brand and, and why you chose to do this analysis.
[00:05:04] Glenda: [00:05:04] So the brand that I chose was Aimé Leon Dore, which is a brand that would mostly fit the category of maybe luxurious streetwear. And, it is based in New York. And I personally love the plan, and I'm a customer and I've bought things from them, even though I don't think I'm necessarily their target customer because it is a menswear brand. But, I love their aesthetics. And I think it also reflects on how people shop these things that gender categories don't really restrict people. And, if they find something that they love, they'll just purchase it anyway.
[00:05:37] And I also used to live by their flagship locations. The first one was in Mott street, and I think it's a temporary location. Then they moved up to Mulberry street, and if anyone asks me where to go and recommend, to go in that area, I would always say to go to their stores because, it kind of feels that when you go there, you're transported to another place in time with the design of the place. And also little details, whether it's like hanging sneakers by their entrance, our retro sports memorabilia as part of their decor, and I think they're really good at creating this very specific world that...it's very unique and also their aesthetic is really clear throughout their social media. And I was really interested on how their service and their operations are; and see whether I can find some opportunities that I can work with and build upon.
[00:06:31] Christopher: [00:06:31] So Glenda, when you were analyzing this brand, what were the opportunities that you found?
[00:06:36] Glenda: [00:06:36] I find that they have a really strong following, a community that kind of lives outside of the social media accounts that they have. But, people kind of find trouble with their customer service. And, I think those two are kind of contradictory in my mind where they have social standpoint, but people who might not really know the backstory of the brand find it difficult to kind of engage with the brand. So, I find that emerging new customers and existing customers is one of the ways that I can strengthen their customer service and experience.
[00:07:10] Christopher: [00:07:10] Awesome. And we're going to get to the strategy in just a moment. But before that, Jeanette, tell us about the brand you chose to analyze and why.
[00:07:18] Jeanette: [00:07:18] Sure. So the brand I chose was Urban Outfitters, which is a lifestyle retailer dedicated to inspiring customers through a unique combination of product, creativity and cultural understanding.
[00:07:31] So, how I got to UO was actually interesting and sounded superficial than, Glenda's reasons. I am very bad at making decisions, so I literally brainstorm most of the retailers close to where I live, and I understand that for this project, you have to have a good grasp of the understanding of how those in-store settings work, because that's a major part of the Omni channel experience analysis. And then Urban Outfitters was one of them and I think I was more familiar with their visual merchandising and in-store retailing touchpoints and services. And, I think it would be very interesting to look at it Urban Outfitters, because especially they have a lot of retail stores across the country, so it will be worthwhile to look at their omni channel experience.
[00:08:30] Christopher: [00:08:30] What were the opportunities that you found when you were assessing this Omni channel experience?
[00:08:35] Jeanette: [00:08:35] Right. Actually, when I did the research and assessment, I found they are already having some good omni channel experience and, services for clients, because they have all the technologies and services, automated project recommendations and loyalty programs. So I think, with further digitization, becoming a more and more stronger trend in, especially in this Covid-19 situation, it would be great for Urban Outfitters and companies like Urban Outfitters to get more into digital technology and really to be innovative and bold about it.
[00:09:17] Christopher: [00:09:17] And we're going to talk about that in a moment because, we're going to, we're going to jump back to your, your strategy.
[00:09:23] So, Glenda, you found some key areas of opportunity. So could you tell us, you know, just highlight a few of your strategy points that you think would benefit the brand?
[00:09:35] Glenda: [00:09:35] So, yeah, the main idea behind the strategies that I proposed for Aimé Leon Dore is emphasizing the importance of not only having a dedicated community, as I mentioned before, that they do have, but also really engaging with them and also growing that community with new customers. They're already great creating this unique world, and I think equally important, to invite and also encourage people to be immersed with the culture of the brand. And, so the main strategy that I was proposing was creating an app for a way to enhance customer experience and also a platform where they can introduce other programs. And, part of the strategy is me introducing three programs, the first one being a tiered membership program. So when you sign up for the app, you become a part of their membership loyalty program, and it is really to help increase clientelling programs and also having a more personalized experience for customers and stores and also online, and also give them more access to the brand and show appreciation to those who have supported them.
[00:10:42] And it has features such as try-on-baskets, so when you come to the store, you can just stamp things and choose what you want to tie on and the sales associate will prepare for them. Or, you can buy something through your phone, at the cafe, and an associate will bring your coffee order to anywhere, to any part of the store. And also, geolocation technology, so when you're around the area, you are reminded that maybe there's new collection or there is an opportunity to earn extra points if you visit the store that day. And I was kind of inspired by Nike because, to be honest, Nike is the only brand that I have an app for. With other brands, I downloaded it and then deleted it a couple of days. But what Nike, sometimes I pass it to their store and I get a notification and it doesn't always translate me going to a store or making a purchase, but it always makes me, it reminds me that, hey, maybe there's something that I want to buy or I want to check out. And I think that's a really great strategy with the geolocation technology. And also with their sneakers app, I remember that last year they had an Amex day celebration, and I got notification for it and I told my friends also downloaded it and she never really bought anything from the app. And, found out that she couldn't RSVP for the event, so it kind of felt that they are validating my purchase and my loyalty to the brand.
[00:12:07] Christopher: [00:12:07] You, you made me think of something just then, because you know, when we think about how you're engaging with apps, and you mentioned for your strategy, the customer could actually scan clothing and, and purchase it even in person in the store, and then it's backed up by an associate. Did you create that because of the understanding that that post Covid, there's a concern around how much you want to interact with other people? Or, is it more just you were thinking from terms of efficiency?
[00:12:40] Glenda: [00:12:40] Both, because I kind of see also my way of shopping. I'm quite an efficient shopper. So, I go into a store, I know what I want and at the same time, you can check inventory you when you're using the app, maybe the sizes you want to try on is not available in stores. But, also when I was thinking about it and how we are in this situation of Covid-19, people don't really want to try on clothes that other people have tried on. So, it's kind of more of a showroom experience where they can see the items on the racks, but they have like a new pair inside that they could pull out and for you to try that's brand new and no one really has to touch them before. So thinking about, you know, how people might react shopping in stores and trying on the clothes, that's also part of the reason why I propose that idea
[00:13:24] Christopher: [00:13:24] You built in another part with with the app, which I think was cool ; you called it the ALD uniform. It's kind of a replenishment program you were, suggesting, right?
[00:13:34] Glenda: [00:13:34] Yes. So that was the second program that I was proposing and Aimé Leon Dore themselves have this category called uniforms on their website. So you can shop and see a category called uniform, which is basically the line of basics, which is sweatpants, sweatshirts, hoodies, tee shirts, shorts, that comes in different colors every season, but kind of maintains the same throughout each season. And, with Covid-19, you see everywhere people recommending, oh, while in loungewear for you to work at home with. And with retail struggling, like certain categories are still doing strong and, ath-leisure and, leisurewear is part of them. And I was reading a Forbes magazine when I was doing the research that certain brands have found that they have made a great amount of sales in three weeks, even compared to their whole sales in the past year, they have made the same or even more. So, I think it's an opportunity for Aimé Leon Dore to really emphasize a category that's already very, successful for them and use it to kind of fit in with the times with a Covid-19 people might not go to the stores. And having a subscription program people are still shopping. And, part of it is to make people want to be part of this program is that there will be lower prices than on a one-off purchases and also special, a special edition collector's boxes as packaging and also monogram services. So, it also adds a personal touch and enhancing the excitement of shopping when you're staying at home and wearing products that you are intending to use at home.
[00:15:19] Christopher: [00:15:19] Very cool. I like that. And I do like the idea as someone buys more, if they're in the replenishment program, relative to one item, what does the pricing look like? Because, one of the biggest concerns will be with unemployment being as high as it is, the discretionary income. And, you know, people will want more for how much they're spending. Right? And, so I think this way, you're still getting this multiple unit transaction that's happening and not just these one-off pieces. So, very, very great, great idea that you put forth there.
[00:15:56] So Jeanette, I want you to shoot it back over to you. And I'd like for you to take us through the highlights of your strategy.
[00:16:03] Jeanette: [00:16:03] Yes. So, first of all, the strategy I put forward is called upgrading Urban Outfitters omni channel with virtual technology to lead further digitization. Here, the virtual technology is divided into two parts, virtual reality and digital fashion products. I know that virtual reality has been in the conversation within industry for a while, and I still feel there's a need for us to really translate those physical shopping experience into virtual shopping events ,because, it really helps to eliminate some of the boundaries or concerns such as geo locations or, during Covid-19, the hygienic issues, while still having the instant gratification in purchase impulse to add on to the 2D online shopping experience. And also virtual reality, right now, is very big in holding like concerts and events such as Travis Scott's concerts in the game Fortnight. And I think companies like Urban Outfitters, which has a great connection with creative community and consumers really have the opportunity to expand their business trajectory and to live concerts and events. i n VR settings. And, it would also be interesting if they could consider producing their exclusive VR headsets, which might attract more consumers to go back to their physical locations to try on and really experience the technology. So, these are for virtual tech, virtual reality.
[00:17:40] And the second technology will be digital fashion products, meaning certain products are only digitally released and consumers can style their own looks by picking the items and uploading their pictures, and then placing the orders. So then technicians will help them touch-up their photos so they look like exactly in the same outfits, but they have chosen. And then I put forward a strategy because you always target segmentations are mainly millennials and generation Z, who are fascinated with having the most trendiest looks. But, also posting on social media very often. However, at the same time, they are relatively sensitive to price and spendings, especially now people have lower discretionary incomes, and at the same time generation Z are huge in sustainability. So, I think a good use of digital fashion products could really help to speak to young consumers and encourage them to embrace fashion while spending less and making fewer environmental footprints.
[00:18:50]Christopher: [00:18:50] I'm glad you, you mentioned , the gen Z and millennial, because you focused heavily on that and that's Urban Outfitters target audience.
[00:18:59] Jeanette: [00:18:59] Yes.
[00:18:59] Christopher: [00:18:59] What do you think retailers are getting wrong when it comes to engaging that youth culture?
[00:19:06] Jeanette: [00:19:06] Well, I think nowadays it will be a bit outdated and naive for retailers to believe that their products are enough to engage with young consumers, because the availability of online shopping and social media really influence young people's opinions and provide literally more purchase options from different retailers. So, brand loyalty is more and more difficult to get these days. And young consumers no longer buy brands which only create perfect images and aspirations. Instead, they want to see inclusivity. They want to see themselves in those marketing campaigns. They really look for relevance and personal connections with the brands, which should be realized via unique experience, transparency and authenticity.
[00:19:54] Christopher: [00:19:54] And one of the things you focused on for that was the integration of AR and VR and really what does digital technology look like now in playing a role in someone's lifestyle?
[00:20:08] Jeanette: [00:20:08] Totally.
[00:20:09] Christopher: [00:20:09] So Glenda, when you think about engaging youth culture and when you were doing ALD, it's a different type of, of subset of youth culture, right? Cause when we talk about streetwear and we, even though it's a term, you know, that I've never really loved, but it does come from the subculture of surf culture, skate culture, hip hop culture. And you earlier mentioned that the brand really isn't designed towards you, because it's really a menswear brand. However, there needs to be consideration around this gender fluidity. So, what do you think retailers are kind of getting wrong in this space and this area and, and , what do they need to do to really connect with the youth culture?
[00:20:52] Glenda: [00:20:52] I think being authentic is a really important thing. And for example, a brand like Aimé Leon Dore, they might not from their own marketing or their, postings might show that, you know, girls, women are also wearing Aimé Leon Dore when you see the forums that they're, you know, fans are a part of. You know, girls are posting their fit pics or...also part of the conversation...and I think for brands to kind of embrace that, and also bring the community closer to them is very important. And I think one of the other parts of my strategies was having this forum, which is also part of Aimé Leon Dore for new customers to also see how existing fans kind of interact and they are able to also see the world that the brand truly lives in, in the environment they actually. I think that is an opportunity to bring in new customers, because especially in this time, it's really important for brands to kind of show that they're trying to be, inclusive and also be authentic. I rather brands try to make these efforts and proclaim, since the beginning, that there doing all of these things, or have these values and be disappointed when they're not true... when it's not true, or they operate in ways that's contradictory to what they stand for. So, I think brands start slowly and just trying their best to incorporate new things is, really important. And, I think with this time and age, you can see that how people are responding with the pandemic. They're are much more conscious in shopping for brands that they really have a personal connection with. And some even are doing a fund raising or helping these businesses to survive when they know that they might be struggling. So I think you can see that people, customers, are going the extra mile when they feel that they're a part of a community that speaks to them and they also see the people behind their, these businesses as real, authentic people.
[00:22:55] Christopher: [00:22:55] Very cool. I agree with you. I think, you know, one of the things we, we've noticed is the number of ads where it, you know, you have different retailers and brands and organizations saying, you know, they're going through this with us. And it's funny because I, I would rather they just say true to who they are, and I'd rather them go, you know: if you are a cool brand like ETRO instead of sending out an email that's, we're here with you, I'd rather it be something like, look, the world is looking black and white, you need some paisley. Do you know what I mean? Like, because that's authentically them. And I think when we consider what fashion retail is always about is it's about taking us out of our lives for bit, right? It's this aspirational feeling, and if it's not aspirational, it is the life you have have come to get to know it's removing you from reality. And, I sometimes think being your most authentic is , I'm taking you out of reality right now, and I don't want you to remember or, or think about that sadness like you, you wear these clothes cause it makes you feel good. So to your point, that's creating a community in the right way.
[00:24:13] So I want to ask you two a question, which is, if you were to talk to a student considering joining this program, what would you tell them? Jeanette, I'll let you go first on that.
[00:24:27] Jeanette: [00:24:27] I think just based on my personal experience, if you do join this program, if you were not pulling the few all-nighters, you might be doing it wrong. Well, I'm really trying to say here, is be ready to hustle because each module only lasts for five weeks and everything is condensed and super quick. There is only one year. However, if you still want to join us, welcome and I don't think you will regret it, because honestly, all the faculty members in this program are amazing. They're super knowledgeable and sophisticated and dedicated to this program, and they're generous about sharing their experience and resources with us. And it really, truly has been a worthwhile experience for me, and I think it will be one for you too.
[00:25:16] Christopher: [00:25:16] Well thanks Jeannette. Glenda how about you?
[00:25:20] Glenda: [00:25:20] Yeah, to piggyback on Jeanette's point, you really do get as much as you put in. So, you guys have provided us a lot of amazing resources. We've got to meet and connect with so many amazing people, as you guys can see from the podcast itself. You know, it's just an extension of what we've been experiencing since last fall. And, I think it's our responsibility to really just learn from everyone and take it in. As someone who's a shy person, I've really been telling myself to really just ask questions, ask for advice, reach out to people, because everyone's been really great and really, really helpful, especially during these times. Everyone's really open to helping. And I think the community that this program has provided me and the mentors have been like the biggest highlight of being a part of this program.
[00:26:13] Christopher: [00:26:13] Awesome. So here's my last question to the two of you. Glenda, you will be done with this fashion management program at the end of the summer. You guys still have two more classes and you were at thesis to go. My question to you is, what are you nervous about as you approach the industry on your professional journey?
[00:26:34] Glenda: [00:26:34] Oh, that's a really great question. And I think my answer is everything we can. It's really uncertain times, and you can't really exactly predict what's going to happen. But definitely like we're about to graduate. I think with a lot of us were concerned about job search and how the workforce is going to be after all of this. And even that, you know, timeline wise, you know. And also just the economy in general. You know, how are people gonna respond as someone who kind of sees themselves as building a brand in the future, I kind of start thinking about like how people's shopping behaviors are going to change. Are they going to even think as clothes as something important enough to allocate money for? So there's just a lot of uncertainties, but no, I'm trying to keep positive and yeah, kind of just be aware of what's happening and again, you know, talk to people and hopefully things are going to get better soon.
[00:27:33] Christopher: [00:27:33] No, they will. And please remain positive. You know, there's, there is definitely opportunity out there for those who are thinking strategically and thinking differently, and thinking about a new way and a new approach to, to business. And I want to follow my question up with you, because you want to start your own brand, do you think of it differently now after starting and kind of in the process of this program?
[00:28:03] Glenda: [00:28:03] I think like with the program, you kind of get to see different aspects and how, the industry is going about things. And I think I'm much more conscious in what I want to produce and what message that I want to put out there. Because, you know, building a brand these days, you know, you might just need a a laptop and just create your own website. And it's easy as that. But at the same time, it's really hard to kind of break through because everyone is able to do it. And how are you going to differentiate yourself and make a brand that, you know, you're not just creating waste into the world and making something, worth more and have more value. And I think being in this program has really made me think of things really well and have people to bounce off ideas with. Because, I come from a design background, so I've been thinking about building a brand from that point of view for a very long time, but now getting the point of view from, you know, production or like service design and retailing and all those kinds of things, it kind of makes one idea become much more of a concrete plan for me. And I think that's how I'm going to like also take that direction for my thesis as well.
[00:29:18] Christopher: [00:29:18] Fantastic. Very cool. Jeanette, how about you? What? What are you nervous about as, as you continue on after the summer?
[00:29:27] Jeanette: [00:29:27] Well, yeah, adding on to Glenda's point. I think in this situation we have a lot of things to be nervous about. I think Glenda and also a lot of fellow classmates and I often discuss about the uncertainty, especially in this year. A lot of people are suffering from job losses or even bigger and more serious issues. Like, no one is really clear about where everything is going after things reopens. But I guess we need to be up for the challenge anyways. And it's just personally, I, as I mentioned earlier, I came from a communications background. So, through this program, I really hope to transition into a more business role, meaning more strategies and more numbers. Although we have been through a lot of training in this program, like developing business plans and strategies for different types of companies, I think putting them into real business scenarios could look a little bit different. So, I think one of my major concerns will also be immediate adaptation and adjustment once I enter the professional business world.
[00:30:35] Christopher: [00:30:35] Yeah, I mean, I think that's always one of those, those concerns, right? Because sometimes it's like, oh, I was in a controlled atmosphere, being able to have time to think this out, and then, you know, on the industry side you have to come up with things a lot faster and there's so many different variables coming at you. The good thing is, is that I think where you guys all are at this point, is that you know how to kind of see your way through the forest, and it's more like when you get into industry, how do you see your way in the forest when you have so much coming at you at one time? And that's something that you'll have to get used to as you get into industry, is like, I remember someone asking me, you know, so what is your, what is your day like? And the funny thing is, is that my day was never the same, right? You know, every single day there was a new fire to put out. But the great thing was, is that you could put the fire out, right? So, I think when you guys integrate into industry side, that will be a big learning curve for you.
[00:31:40] So thank you both so much. This has been an amazing, amazing experience to talk to you, to have the opportunity to engage with you all over the last five weeks, and I can wish you continued success.
[00:31:56] Jeanette: [00:31:56] Thank you so much.
[00:32:01] Joshua: [00:32:01] Thank you for listening to this episode of Retail Revolution. Very special. Thank you to everyone who has helped make this podcast possible. Our guests are students and fellow faculty at Parsons school of design, especially in such an extraordinary and unprecedented time. Our theme music was composed by Spencer Powell.Be well, and stay tuned for our next episode.
