Transcript - Claire Mitchell
Joshua Williams: Retail Revolution is a special, limited podcast created specifically for "Retailing and Service Design," a unique course that is part of the Fashion Management graduate program at Parsons School of Design in New York City. Each episode features in depth conversations with guest experts in omni-channel retelling with myriad perspectives: technology, consumer engagement, data analytics, merchandising, and more. We pay special attention to the short- and long- term challenges and implications of COVID-19 and potential opportunities to rethink retail's future. Retail Revolution is produced by Joshua Williams and hosted by Christopher Lacy, both are Assistant Professors in the School of Fashion at Parsons.
Christopher Lacy: Hello, welcome to another episode of Retail Revolution, where we discuss all things related to retailing and service design. Today, we are discussing how technology has and will support positive change in customer experience design, and with us to chat about that, we have product design and innovation consultant, Claire Mitchell.
Welcome to the show, Claire.
Claire Mitchell: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
Christopher Lacy: Yeah. I'm glad that you could make time. because I know it's been kind of a wild ride over the last, you know, three, four weeks for everyone. Wow. When you don't know what day of the week it is, it definitely flies by.
Claire Mitchell: Totally. But this is such an important conversation to have. And I think I mentioned to you before, I'm so impressed with you guys, spinning that this podcast so quickly. It's awesome.
Christopher Lacy: Thank you. Thank you so much. It's been great for us because I don't know that we would have been able to speak to experts in this way while we normally in a class setting, we would have guest lectures come in.
I think there's something really organic and cool about being able to chat with everyone in this way, in the comfort of their own homes, you know, we're far but connected. So, I want to start off with asking you to tell us about you. You've had quite an interesting career. I think our listeners would love to hear that trajectory.
Claire Mitchell: Yeah, I would say very nontraditional trajectory. I actually started my career in creative development for visual effects and animation studio, really focused on expressing narrative for the screen. It was at the time that the first iPhone had just come out, screens were everywhere. And that was sort of the dominant mode of communication on everyone's mind.
But after a couple of years, I went back to grad school for interaction design, and became really interested in new user interfaces and how we might interact with digital information without the aid of a screen. So that brought me into the internet of things space. I ended up at a software startup for industrial IOT applications, where I was leading product design.
And then ended up most recently at an agency in the emerging technologies division, where I worked with our internal creative tech team or creative teams to expand their sort of concept thing capabilities and toolbox and worked with clients on helping prioritize. Different areas of innovation.
and so now I'm sort of doing a mix of all of those things, on my own.
Christopher Lacy: That's an awesome space to be in because you get to engage with so many different sectors within the industries that are consumer facing.
Claire Mitchell: Yeah. It's a really awesome way to put together interdisciplinary teams. So, you get to collaborate with on different sorts of problems every day.
Christopher Lacy: So, when we talk about problems and knowing that when we talk about innovation really is you're the solution to a problem that's occurred. What do you see as the next wave of innovation, with technology that retailers should be looking at right now?
Claire Mitchell: Well, I think one of the, sometimes misconceptions about innovation is that it should start with the technology or that it's all about new technologies and all innovation is, is looking at existing.
Challenges or problems through, a new framework or an unexpected perspective. And so, the way that I view technologies and study technologies and learn technologies, it's all about adding more tools to my toolkit, so that when a challenge arises, I have various. Tools to, to choose. And some of the solutions might involve technologies and some of them might not.
But that being said, it's important to stay up on some of the latest technologies that can make an impact, when the occasion arises. And so, I'm really interested in image recognition, visual search, and that's something that will really change the way that we find products of interest like Pinterest, Google lens, Amazon all have a visual search capability that can surface recommended products. When you scan something that you see on the street, like a pair of boots or anything else, or using image recognition to scan, packaging and surface relevant information, scanning an, a garment for care instructions, or information about how it was fabricated. Scanning sort of like food packaging to get nutritional information or other information that can't be printed on the side. Another really interesting technology that I think that we're all very accustomed to at this point is augmented reality and virtual try-on in the fashion space, but I'm also interested in voice user interfaces, scaling conversations between brands and their audiences.
New materials research, I think is a really exciting one, especially as we're looking at, maybe virus resistant fabrics, is that an area that people are going to be paying more attention to. l And then I would say the last one that I've been pretty interested in recently is smart headphones. So, we're all starting to wear these wireless headphones throughout the day, even when we're not consuming audio content.
And it’s sort of the first time that we have a wearable that's augmenting what our capabilities are, ability to hear. And unlike hearing AIDS that are sort of stigmatized. These are becoming almost like a fashion symbol or a status symbol. And I think we're going to start seeing those become adopted by fashion brands, as items to sort of decorate ourselves while augmenting our capabilities.
Christopher Lacy: Wow. You just gave us a lot to chew on there because I think I want to go back one to where we talk about materiality and this has been a topic in the fashion industry for such a long time. When we're talking about sustainable practices. Really how technology can integrate into wearable technology. And not in that wearable technology like clunky sort of way, but how do we really make fabrics more functional, but still fashionable? And what does that look like? Do you foresee there being kind of this push for the future where our clothing or our wearables start to kind of give us information on our health?
Claire Mitchell: Oh yeah. I know that there's been a lot of experimentation in that area, but also clothing that has some other function by wearing it. Like it's just more supportive or sweat resistant when we're exercising. It's interesting. I think fashion should be about expression and function, and I'm not sure that that's been the priority in some cases, but because of all the things that we're going through right now, and this striving for quality and sustainability, I think we're going to see a return to those two as being the core. And so, materials research is a huge part of that functionality piece.
Christopher Lacy: I agree. And I think, you know, because of that, this is where you look at leisure brands or true athletic brands and how they've been able to really push forward in the fashion space and go, you know, this clothing is not just for working out, but it's also just for your day to day functional behavior.
And one of the things I think when we come out of this, is based on the technology that certain brands have been working on up to this point could make them leaders in the pack, in the fashion space and in the retail fashion space with consumers. You know, COVID-19 coming out on the other side and that's going to be really important in how they use technology when it comes to materiality.
Claire Mitchell: Yeah, particularly, I imagine some of the companies that have sort of shifted their production to making masks or making gowns for hospitals will be really well positioned to sort of rethink that process and how to introduce considerations around sanitation and just that ability to pivot it's gonna position them really well.
Christopher Lacy: I agree with you wholeheartedly on that. When we think about technology and I know that you just said innovation is not directly linked to technology. They're not always one in the same. My question would be how does technology then make the customer experience more memorable?
Claire Mitchell: Ultimately, I think technology is best used when it's in service of either surfacing relevant and contextual information in the moment, or it's about making or increasing convenience. Or about facilitating interactions between customers and the things or the people that they care about. And so, with those core principles and applying some creative skin on top, I think that that's where you start to drive brand affinity and utility for between brands and consumers.
Christopher Lacy: So then to your point about that, it's really important. You know, now more than ever that brands are creating what I would call a tribe and that being their community. So, when we really get into the aegis of it, how do retailers leverage this to make that happen in stores? So, the in-store experience is definitely going to be different post COVID-19.
What do you think that that's going to need to look like from a technology perspective?
Claire Mitchell: You're right. It's so hard to talk about it in this moment because it's almost so foreign to us because we can barely leave our houses but all sort of talk about it from both directions.
The in-store experience and also bringing the store to the home, but for in store, I think we'll start to see more intimate experiences. We've gone through this huge round, where experiential design is super emphasized, but if that can be highlighted in a more personalized way, using a smaller footprint, which I'm sure a lot of retailers are going to start to look into. There might be ways of using IOT, even facial recognition or voice ID, obviously with people's permissions to make the physical experience personalized, depending on who's walking around in it. Or sustainable, maybe different products are only illuminated if somebody is actually standing in front of them. So certain things like that might start to make the physical space reconsidered. But on the flip side, there’s an opportunity to bring the in-store experience to the home
Christopher Lacy: Claire, when we talk about what brands are looking for right now, what brands need to do? One of the, the number one thing is creating a tribe and/or a community. So, how do you see technology helping retailers make that happen in-store? Because now we'll have gone through months of being isolated and there's that level of fear that goes along with okay.
Once it's okay to really go out and engage again. How do I feel comfortable in a space?
Claire Mitchell: Ultimately, it's gotta be about bringing value to the customer and we've seen this phase or not phase, but this sort of need to highlight experiential design, to give people a reason to come into the store. I think that's going to be even more emphasized now, after the dust settles and people can get back into the physical space, but it's also going to need to be.
A little bit more intimate and personalized. It's not going to make as much sense anymore for the footprint, the retail footprint to be so big. And so we might see more personalized experiences for smaller groups of people using IOT technologies or voice ID, or other ways of identifying how to make the space.
Relevant to the people or person that's in it. And there's probably going to be an eye towards sustainability as well might use IOT to eliminate products only when a person is standing in front of them, for instance. But on the flip side, bringing the retail experience to customers which can already be done starting now, when we're all sort of forced to be at home, there are a couple of startups that have a leg up on this.
There's a company called Obsess AR. They are, which is super interesting. They are digitizing the retail experience by replicating the sort of aesthetics of that space in a virtual environment. And so that's really, really interesting one.
Christopher Lacy: Yeah, I think that one is really cool. When we were planning some things for our interview festival we were talking to a few different brands and one of which is, Beyond VR that really creates this showroom experience.
And, and I have to say, you know, at the time, you know, you're thinking about it, you're like how much does this really needed it? It is really cool. And that was. You know, and we were partnering with them in a different way to connect our brands through e-commerce and showcase our designers. But it's funny that in a timing of three months, how it's gone from, we wouldn't have needed all of that platform to going, if I were a retailer right now, I would need every bit of that platform and I'd be trying to get it up right now.
Claire Mitchell: It's so true. And that was my reaction when I first heard about it around a year, year and a half ago as well. Like why not just the products in pictures have listed on an eCommerce site, but I do think that it is quite relevant right now. And one of the cool things about it is that the garments that are on the racks in this virtual space can be tailored or customized to the person who's using it.
So, it's almost like, your own personal stylist has stopped the store for you.
Christopher Lacy: I actually have to say it's brilliant. And when I think about my own experience with e-commerce, I think, you know, for me, I only would go online to buy things that one, I knew I had I'd already purchased before in store. That it was more of a replenishment program situation for me, and I needed it to be transactional.
And I have to admit in the back of my head, one of the things about eCommerce that I don't like is that. I never really felt like it was ever a representative of the brand, no matter what the eCommerce site was. And I think when we talk about startups, like Beyond and Obsess, what they're able to do is give me the experience that I am in this physical location, and then I'm having this experience. And I have to say it would still force me into the store. Like I wouldn't have this consistent experience between both. And I think that's what true omnichannel retailing is one. And I think that's how e-commerce should engage with brick and mortar, right?
Claire Mitchell: Yeah. And I think that personalization of experience and making sure that it feels on brand can be extended beyond that sort of exploration period, to even the moment that you get the garment in hand. If you are getting a subscription box or if you're getting a single garment through this, a more virtual experience. When you open the package there could be a little note card that you're supposed to scan or, a CTA to ask your Google assistant or Alexa device to play the soundtrack of the garment that you're about to try on ,and you can create sort of what the retail space would be like with the sounds and the aesthetics as an in-home experience that's customized to you.
Christopher Lacy: And I think that's where we need to be. I think that customizable approach and that soundtrack. Because the true experience is when it's immersive and, sound in, in sight and touch. And also, I want to highlight that these things in technology help us do things like creating atmosphere of inclusivity in a way that normal e-commerce wouldn't. You go onto an eCommerce site and the model is the model, but you don't necessarily connect with that model and that models body size.
And so I think when we use technology in this VR, AR way, I get to experience it any way I want to. Without looking at someone who looks nothing like me or is not the same body size as me. And to your point, I can have whatever music I want, or I can, you know, experience it in any way. I think this is a pivot that would have to happen in retail. Sooner than later, for sure.
Claire Mitchell: And to your point about it being relevant to your body type and you know, your feet or your whatever you're, you're interested in. that's where virtual try on makes a ton of sense. There's an app called, WannaKicks, which is all about trying on different sneakers and it's so well done.
It's almost seamless and it's just fun to use and you can see how the different shoe styles would look on your feet through your mobile phone.
Christopher Lacy: Why do you think it's been difficult for heritage brands? And I actually don't even want to say heritage brands because that's not fair to them because I do think that the fashion industry and heritage brands do a great job of a lot of things when it comes to technology and being at the forefront.
But why do you think it is difficult for larger organizations to adopt these technologies that we're discussing right now, that startups are still easily, kind of, you know, integrating?
Claire Mitchell: I think there are a couple of reasons. The first is just priority. It sometimes takes an inflection point. Like the one that we're going through right now for, the value of prioritizing that sort of experimentation to be seen. So that's a huge one. the others, maybe a little bit more logistical, but creating garments in 3D that are fabric based and need to flow is actually quite challenging technically.
So, that's why a lot of the virtual try on stuff that we see right now is primarily harder goods like tennis shoes, like jewelry, like sunglasses. So those are two major factors.
Christopher Lacy: So, you talked earlier about, you were saying, technology can help with transparency. And I think this is really important.
And just from a retailing and the service design, whether it's in the grocery store or, you're buying cosmetics, or your purchasing ready to wear, there is an educated consumer. We're all extremely educated sometimes with the correct information. Sometimes with incorrect information. There's so much information coming at us in different ways it's kind of hard to weed through it. How can technology help us with this transparency in the future for our purchasing decisions?
Claire Mitchell: It's a great question. And you're absolutely right. Customers and people in general are going to increasingly demand transparency about the products that they buy and from the companies of the products that they buy.
And they’re going to want to do the diligence of researching how things were produced. One of the things that I'm most excited about in this area is provenance tracking. The ability to scan a garment or scan the tag of a garment and understand who made it, where it was made, how the materials were sourced, what the materials are, care instructions, which we are already used to seeing in this scenario, but even how to dispose of a garment or how to recycle it. And this could be supported by something like the blockchain, which would sort of validate all of the information along the way in that supply chain. The technology is really there just to surface the information and the information that's most relevant in the moment.
So, if you were to sort of take this approach, you might scan a garment and the first time you scan the tag, you see what it's made of and care instructions. But if you have had that garment for a long time, it might give you more information about how to keep it intact or how to dispose of it or recycle it at some point.
Christopher Lacy: Really interesting. If you're someone who really is into skincare and cosmetics, there's always that tricky moment where you're like, wait, have I had this too long? Can I still use this cream? Can I still use this? And you're like, wait, I can't remember when I opened the jar, but there's like number 30 next to the little jar opening things.
So, it's like, I only have 30 days to use it, but well, how long have I had it? And I wish there was some way I could just know, like, am I done? Do I need to throw this, this cream away or this whatever it is away? So, I would say that there's definitely a market for that, especially when it comes to the beauty space.
Claire Mitchell: Totally. And I think the demand for information in general from customers, whether it's surfaced through scanning a garment or, you know, in any other way, that's going to probably in turn encourage brands to take a more cradle to cradle approach to design as well.
Christopher Lacy: Absolutely. So, I want to just switch gears with you for a bit because our listeners are in a graduate program.
They graduated undergrad, started working now they're back in a school experience while also working, many different factors. And I really would love to hear from you because you've had some changes that have happened that you wanted to, and that you made the decision and then some that didn't.
So how has this COVID-19 situation impacted, honestly, your flow, your workflow.
Claire Mitchell: I think it’s sort of similar to where I think a lot of people are, is just a realignment of values and a reset of what the future could hold. I mean, speaking to where I think the world is headed, it's an acceleration of the things that we knew that we had to think about but now we're sort of being forced to act on it.
for us as individuals that can be about our, career trajectory. It could be about our consumption patterns, but I think that they sort of go hand in hand, the individual level and the global level. It's often hard to see the silver lining in a moment like this, but optimism is so important. it's the only way forward, really.
And I think that we're going to see three stages of processing of this. COVID moment. Right now, we're sort of in that survival mode where we're sort of trying to hang on to the frameworks that we're used to, thinking that we're going to go back to the way things were. Get back to normal is a phrase that a lot of people are talking about.
But I think as soon as we start to accept that we're not going back to the exact place that we came from, we can start to reinvent the future and think about what the future is that we want for ourselves
Christopher Lacy: I agree with you. I have to say this situation has really ravaged us globally when it comes to the economy, people's jobs and lives.
Mortality rate. And at the same time, when you say it's hard to find the silver lining, I have to say. This has forced me as a person to really create my life differently. And by that, I mean, I had to slow down to the point where I started to strategize not just my personal life differently, but how I engaged my, my professional life.
And I actually even think, you know, how quickly we came up with what we're doing now with Retail Revolution, would we have ever done this? Had all of this not have happened, where we ever thought that, you know, we want to have these conversations with people in this industry and this way? Because it still would have been valid before, but I don't know that we really would have wanted to slow down and take the time to have a 45-minute conversation like this. None of us would have had the time.
Claire Mitchell: Totally. Yeah. I mean, great ideas are born out of necessity. Innovation is born out of necessity in a lot of cases. And now that we can sort of accept that we're not going back to the space where we were, it's almost a blank slate to determine. The next paradigm that we want to live with and for the N for industries in general, it's an opportunity to think about designing a future of quality and sustainability, rather than seed and quantity.
Just like you're saying like a moment to slow down.
Christopher Lacy: Exactly. So, Claire, I really appreciate you being open about that personal experience and where you are from a personal place. What I, what I also want to know from you, if you don't mind, is what are your thoughts on service design after this COVID-19 pandemic? And knowing that it really wanted, but really what it would look like after our COVID-19 isolation?
Claire Mitchell: So, I would say in addition to sort of an acceleration of our values that we held before but now are almost being required to act upon. I think people are going to start to align themselves with the brands that represent quality. And embody the values, the values that they want to express. In addition to obviously great style, if fashion is about expression and functionality, part of that expression might be aesthetics, but part of it may also be alignment with the fact that I believe in what this brand is doing and how they produce their products, rather than sort of an obsession that we've had in the past for, you know, seed and quantity of items.
And I think it's, it's easy to hang onto the old frameworks until it isn't, because that's what we're used to. And it's hard and scary to upend our existing systems. And it's also extremely expensive, especially at the industrial level. But the optimism of this moment in time is that everything is forced to be reconsidered. Or not even reconsidered, but reinvented. And
I think, some of the ideas for a more sustainable future are already here. Like there's a company called Fabricant, which is all digital clothing lines, that are highly expressive, but can be purchased and worn for your digital self. There's zero waste because there's no production but there's an almost democratization of style that can be scaled and.
There's other companies on the other side of things, on the analog side for days as a company also is zero waste, but it's all about comfort and you purchase the garment and when you're done with it, you return it and it gets recycled into new garments. So that's a really exciting area. And when I think about those two ideas combined, what if there are digital product drops that allow people to express interest in a design, before it's actually produced, we're sort of used to seeing this model of lines being produced, a ton of garments being produced, and then they have to be sold.
And if they're not sold, they're discounted and then there's a lot of waste. But that can all be flipped if we sort of test demand and then go forward with production afterwards.
Christopher Lacy: That's really interesting. So, essentially we go digital and then bring it, to life, essentially?
Claire Mitchell: It could be, and maybe that's reserved for the more extravagant designs or right off the runway.
And then on the more craftsmanship side, I think we'll probably gravitate towards clothing that are really, really functional and comfortable and high quality. And they can be more expensive because they're an investment in longevity.
Christopher Lacy: I'm glad you brought that up because one of my concerns has really been, while I love technology and I love digitization, I really appreciate craftsmanship and in my career I've seen a shoe being made and felt what real lace work feels like and looks like. And I do think that those are our crafts and artistry that we really shouldn't lose because I don't know that we always think of the fashion retail industry as art. and one of those reasons is because with fast fashion and all those things, that have occurred, we lose that. And I think people who get that, get it and understand why. Why we love fashion for the reasons we do, when you feel amazing work in a garment, there's nothing like it.
And when you feel how it sits on your body, there's nothing like it. So, no matter what happens with a recession, a gentlemen who wears Kiton suits, he's never going to stop wearing Kiton suits and start wearing something else, right? That's lower end. He just might not buy as many Kiton suits because he's become very used to how that craftsmanship is and how it feels on the body.
Claire Mitchell: Totally. And it's an interesting point because I think one of the reasons fast fashion has worked for a long time is this idea that style is being democratized. It's low cost of getting styles that look like they, are, you know, in fashion in season. but if there's a startup that could, figure out in this moment, how to democratize quality.
That would be amazing quality and style. And maybe part of that is more about more local producers or localizing production. maybe it's also about bringing the global local through technology and helping people understand who made the garments and where they came from and what materials are made of?
Yeah, I think that would be a huge push forward for the industry and I would look forward to seeing it. So, thank you so much, Claire, for this amazing conversation. I've enjoyed it so much. I feel like we could probably talk for another 45 minutes or so. I would love to hear more things that you have to say, but how can our listeners stay informed about what you do?
What, what you're working on and get, you know, your insight.
LinkedIn is probably the best place. just look me up Claire Mitchell.
Christopher Lacy: Fantastic. Claire, thank you again. And we are so happy that you joined us on Retail Revolution.
Claire Mitchell: Thanks for having me.
Joshua Williams: Thank you for listening to this episode of Retail Revolution. A very special thank you to everyone who has helped make this podcast possible, our guests, our students and fellow faculty at Parsons School of Design, especially in such an extraordinary and unprecedented time. Our theme music was composed by Spencer Powell.
Be well and stay tuned for our next episode.
