Transcript - Paul Magel
Season 3, Episode 14
Conversation with Paul Magel, President, Business Applications & Technology Outsourcing Division, CGS
Joshua Williams: Retail Revolution, a unique podcast that features in-depth conversations with guest experts in omni-channel retailing with myriad perspectives: technology, consumer engagement, data analytics, merchandising, and more. We pay special attention to current sociopolitical issues and challenges and their implications on fashion retail as well as opportunities to innovate and rethink retail's future. Visit RetailRevolutionPodcast.com for more information, including full transcripts. And follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn @RetailRevolutionPodcast.
Retail Revolution is produced by Joshua Williams and hosted by Christopher Lacy. Both are assistant professors in the fashion management graduate program at Parsons School of Design.
Christopher Lacy: Paul Magel, who joined CGS in 1997, has more than three decades of experience in the information technology space. In his role as president of the business applications and technology outsourcing division, he oversees the company's flagship enterprise suite of solutions, Blue Cherry, which encompasses the fashion apparel, consumer lifestyle products industry, as well as technology and infrastructure practice, sales, delivery, support and development. Paul is also responsible for the CGS global software development centers in Europe, in India, and the recent expansion of the Blue Cherry Solutions business across Europe and Canada. Paul Magel is a true retail revolutionary. And today we'll hear his thoughts on supply chain of the future retail and sustainability on this episode of Retail Revolution with Christopher Lacy.
Welcome to the show, Paul.
Paul Magel: Thank you, Chris, honored to be here. And I appreciate that great introduction.
Christopher Lacy: Oh, thank you. Thank you. It was really all your work. I just repeated it.
Paul Magel: Well, whoever wrote it, did a good job. They made me sound better than I am, I guess.
Christopher Lacy: I mean, and speaking of you doing great work, I'd love for you to tell our listeners some highlights about your career.
Paul Magel: Yeah, let me start by saying again, you know, understanding who your listeners are, I guess, you know, my entire career has really been on the other side of the table from probably the side that their on. I've always been a technology vendor to businesses. Started my career. on the technology side, I have a computer science undergraduate degree; work with IBM, initially throughout college, and I went full-time after that. But I quickly learned that I was much more passionate about being in front of a customer then a computer. And then asked IBM to move me into a sales role, earned my MBA, and then started moving up through technology company’s management chain. Work from IBM to a large software company in New York to a boutique consulting firm on Wall Street on the technology side. And then, as you mentioned, joined CGS twenty-three years ago. And now I'm responsible for the software and technology outsourcing group.
Christopher Lacy: You joined CGS in 1997, as you said, 23 years ago. You've seen a lot change in technology over 23 years. And something that you're working on at CGS, it's called Blue Cherry Enterprise Solutions. So, could you call our listeners about what Blue Cherry Enterprise Solutions does?
Paul Magel: No, you're absolutely correct, 23 years ago, when I joined CGS it was to start the Y2K practice. If anyone remembers that that's when the world was going to end in the year 2000 and as you mentioned today, responsible for really our flagship product, which is a really a family of solutions, branded under the name, Blue Cherry, primarily, very vertically-focused into the fashion and consumer products industry, both target at retailers, as well as wholesalers, importers. And we're really handling all of the supply chain, digitization and back office solutions. So, when we talked to our fashion customers, many times, I'll say, you know, we kind of handle the unfashionable side of fashion. We're behind the scenes, making sure you can handle distribution. You can account for yourselves; you can connect your supply chain. You can have visibility. Everything from a PLM solution, from the design standpoint; we've got manufacturing, productivity solutions that sit on the shop floor, fully RP suite, to attract both suppliers and demand, and then things like B2B portals for your customers to order from; collaborative supply chain, so you can work with your supply chain. And a whole host of solutions. A lot of times I'll just talk really from concept to consumer, or from shop floor to showroom. We have you covered from those back-office systems standpoints.
Christopher Lacy: Really cool. Now I want to ask you, I think you used a phrase there, you said a PDM solution, I think it was?
Paul Magel: PLM, Product Lifecycle Management. I'm gonna apologize for the acronym. So keep me honest, uh...
Christopher Lacy: I'm actually glad you use it because it forced me to have to kind of go, wait, wait, do I know what that means? And I better have that clarified for anyone who doesn't.
So, PLM, product lifecycle management, why is this important? And I'm, I'm asking you this because it's probably something that I don't think most people think about from the retail side, from the consumer side, or even if you're a sales associate in the store, why this is important.
Paul Magel: Yeah, well, it's interesting. You brought up PDM and PDM product development management was really the precursor to PLM, product lifecycle management. You know, again, the PDM aspect of it is more the technical specifications of garments and, items that you're building, honestly, your suppliers know how to build them. It's really the bill of material and the manufacturing specifications to build it up. o when we talk about supply chain visibility and getting better control of the cost of your developing of goods. It really morphed into what is now called and known as product life cycle management.
And it's really not just tracking that bill of material and those specifications, but really tracking the life of that garment from design through development, through sample making, has been the traditional definition of a product life cycle management systems.
Christopher Lacy: I see. you've seen technology change over the years, the Y2K movement; when you said that I, I automatically actually thought of Jennifer Lopez' "Waiting for Tonight" in 1999. That's what I always think of when Y2K gets brought up. And, I don't think we even realized how much would have changed at that time. And now I think about it, it's like, wow. So much is different. And I think we're right there again. And we're there again because of COVID-19. So, looking at all the shifts that have occurred over the last 23 years, what are some major shifts that you think COVID-19 accelerated in omni supply chain?
Paul Magel: It's a great question. I think its phrased because when you say what it accelerated, a lot of times, I try to clarify that really COVID 19, this pandemic, I think has been much more of an acceleration event than an innovation event. You know, a lot of things that retailers and our customers are looking at are things that they had five-year plans to accomplish, 10-year plans to accomplish. Now because of the pandemic, they've had to get those solutions up in five months, or 10 months or even five weeks. So, it's really accelerated a lot that has been changing already in the retail space; already had been changing on how consumers demanded to purchase and acquire their goods. And it's all areas in some of the things we talked about earlier around that digitization of supply chain, visibility of the supply chain, but specifically from our standpoint and our customers, you know, I mentioned we have a B2B product, a business to business portal that customers can go on, look at images, now, 3d images, as well as the standard 2d images, place orders, see the availability, interact with their customers. Imagine a typical showroom, up there on 36th street in the garment center, those all got shut down. So, now you've got retailers and buyers within retailer companies, who are used to going to showrooms, touching, seeing goods, placing orders. They can no longer do that. So, our B2B portal and the work that we've done there has seen a tremendous acceleration allowing buyers to go online, see what the lines look like, place those orders and interact with the salespeople from the importers on the manufacturer's side.
We're also seeing a tremendous demand around our integration capabilities. As one of the issues that came about with the pandemic disparate systems that were not speaking, people lost visibility of where their goods were. Why they weren't arriving or not really knowing when they would arrive. So, we're seeing a lot of demand for projects that really integrate what are traditionally disparate systems between suppliers, vendors, retail partners, and really needing to connect them, so they get real-time visibility; that they can make much quicker decisions around that work. And I think the last piece was just because of what's going on in terms of the amount of revenue people were collecting, the amount of cash in their businesses, people are looking to technology partners to have a much more agile development capability. So, they're not looking for those. 12 to 18-month type implementations of large, long-term return on investment type projects, but quick agile deployment of technology where they can see immediate return. And it's not a very launch capital outlay.
So I think, again, back to an acceleration of where the industry was moving, rather than pure innovation, although obviously there are spots of innovation that had to take place. But most of the work being done is an acceleration of what people had plans for in the past, prior to pandemic.
Christopher Lacy: That's really great.
I mean, I think, sometimes we move at a very slow pace and something has to happen to get us where we need to be a little bit faster. And I mean, if we think about our personal lives, I think that that happens quite often as well. So, it definitely will happen in the business sphere there has to be some sort of event that moves us forward to really rethink the systems we use and how can we better use them?
Paul Magel: Absolutely the case.
Christopher Lacy: So, I want to ask you about retailing and inventory, because when we talk about the acceleration of what's happened in technology, when we talk about the impacts of COVID-19, the biggest thing about that is inventory. And many retailers are in a position where inventory is tight in some areas some categories. And then you have some retailers where there's too much inventory in other areas. So, here they are, they've got, a consumer demand for one product they don't have. There's no demand for another product, maybe because it's out of season and people want newness. But now that they're trying to figure that out, we're on the brink of yet another outbreak. So, when you look at a supply chain, how can retailers really think this out and protect themselves to ensure the flow of distribution, so that we don't really have this situation that we had with distribution channels, that we saw in April and May and June.
Paul Magel: Yeah. You know what? I think that's the million-dollar question. I think every company in the marketplace is trying to really figure that out. Right? Because, so much has changed, right? Typically, when you look at inventory levels and you want to optimize inventory levels, you're looking at historical trends. You're looking at buying patterns. You're, trying to figure out what's happened in the past and predict what's happening in the future. All of those metrics and all those key algorithms almost don't apply, because history is not a precursor to the current situation, we're in. So now how, how do you kind of protect yourself, of what's going on?
To the best of your ability, don't be single sourced. You've got to have multiple ways to source your goods. Don't only be able to be set up for the mass merchants in the mass markets. You've got to be able to make "to order" as well as have the capabilities. So, multi-sourcing capabilities, partnerships. You know, we saw a lot happen early on in this, the relationships between retailers and their vendors, and vendors and their suppliers and the manufacturers. I think it's key that people start building better relationships, where there's risk on both sides, and there's a skin in the game on both sides. So, if something does happen again, people are doing it with their eyes open; they're planning appropriately together; they're both taking some risks going forward. We've seen examples of it. We've got customers who had no demand when the stores were closed. Now, demand is growing. It started as a supply problem when China shut down. Now you've got issues on the West Coast, in the ports, and things are backing up and people have orders. And while manufacturing is open, now we've got clogged up logistics channels coming in, because there's not enough chassis on the trucks and things like that. So, as I said, I don't know if there's a hundred percent way to protect yourself from it other than being diversified and being multi-sourced. And then really looking at partnerships along the supply chain. And then creating what we talked about earlier through technology, is the visibility. So, you've got real-time capabilities. to look at where those goods are. If they're on the floor, on the shop floor, where are they? Are they in cutting? Are they in quality control? So, you can really much more accurately predict when your goods will get there. And then when things happen, you're much more nimble and agile to be able to resolve those types of things. And also looking at new things like artificial intelligence, machine learning, augmented reality that also allows you to do a lot, when things shut down or we're stuck in this digital-only world, that many of us are living in now, rather than meetings and travel and things that we used to do in the past.
Christopher Lacy: You actually mentioned something that sparked something in my mind, which is, China.
Yeah. When that production happened, it did slow everything down. It was a shutdown. But then at the same time locally, here in the US, we still have problems on reports. And it started me thinking about right now, the Panama Canal is backed up. Right? It's taking ships a lot longer to get through the Panama Canal than it ever has before. So, everything is being delayed. Do you see a shift to localization?
Paul Magel: Again, going back to that multi-sourcing strategy; it's not kind of an either if you looked at the past, if you're in an apparel company, they said they would chase the cheap needle, going to the country that had the lowest cost of labor, produce the garment the cheapest. But as we look to the world today, number one, not only just because of pandemic and because of some of the logistical issues that are popping up, but also the changing consumer demand. People don't want to buy bathing suits, in the middle of the winter and not wear them till the summer. They want to "buy it now, wear it now." A lot more customization and personalization; a lot more consumer collaboration. So, the changing way of ordering, six months to a year in advance and trying to predict demand, that'll continue. But maybe not as a hundred percent of the way people do work. And then you've got the mix of this new personalization, fast fashion, where people need to respond very, very quickly. And that doesn't lend itself to be in faraway places from a sourcing standpoint, or the cheapest area of the world. So, I think there'll be a combination. When we talk about multi-sourcing, you've got to be able to reach out to local manufacturers when you need something quick, whether it's a sample or you want to have a more personalized garment manufacturing, capability, to have in the longer term relationships and the longer term supply chain options when you're building for the masses and selling to some of the more larger retailers. So, it's a little bit of both.
Christopher Lacy: When you say that, about it being a little bit of both, and I'm glad you brought up customization, because that is something, from a customer experience perspective, we're talking about that a lot. What does customization look like? And, customization with personalization. There's something that's happening along that supply chain group and just inventory channels. And you have large retailers opening things like dark stores.
Paul Magel: Yep.
Christopher Lacy: When you talk about diversifying, where it's coming from and how do we get something to people readily, rather than having to wait, is the dark stores movement kind of the future of retail?
Paul Magel: Yeah. So, you know, again, dark star and it's a term it's used a couple of different ways. And again, you can clarify for me, but you know, to me it usually a dark star means, and sometimes it's called a, a micro distribution center, right? Where you're using a, what was a traditional traffic store as a distribution center, or as a place where people can pull up, pickup at the curb site. And it's less of a walkthrough store experience, and more of a distribution center or some combination thereof. Is that the context you're using it Chris?
Christopher Lacy: Exactly. That's exactly what I'm thinking of it is.
Paul Magel: Yeah. So yes, some of its necessity where you've got real estate in malls, and shops and malls that have lost their anchor stores and not getting the traffic. So, in order to be more responsive to the consumer and have goods closer to where customers want it; want to go out in the evening when you can go out in the evening, but place an order and then have that to you within a couple of hours, so you can go out that evening in the dress or the suit that you, saw that afternoon. So, bringing inventory closer to the consumer to make those demands, utilizing real estate that you have. So, I think that's definitely going to continue and we see folks doing that. But I also would just caution folks not to kind of get ahead of your skis. This pandemic will end. People will come back. I think a lot of what we're seeing, in everything going online, a lot of that is out of necessity. And I think if we over and move things to that's how we structure our business, I think we're going to see a lot of people return back to their traditional ways of doing things, maybe faster than we thought, because people are missing the consumer interaction and some of those things. So, I think we actually may see it go the opposite way when things come back online, where there'll be a little bit of a deacceleration of what we thought with e-commerce and some of those other things, as people want to get back to the good old days.
We just want to caution folks don't overdo it. If you turn all of your manufacturing to PPE, at some point, PPE is not going to be as high in demand. If you turn all of your stores to dark stores and you just distributing out, when people want to get back together, you may be short on real estate.
So again, no one has a crystal ball and seeing what's around the corner but take a pragmatic view. And I don't think it's going to be all one way or the other. I think there'll be some combination that will continue to exist as we go forward in the new normal.
Christopher Lacy: Paul. That was amazing. And you, you realize I'm about to ask you a question, which is, what was PPE?
Paul Magel: It's really the protective equipment that people were manufacturing gowns and masks and people really have to pivot to that. kind of went a hundred percent in, some did partial, some have already stopped doing that. But again, the huge demand for that from both governments and commercial areas, right? But I don't know how long that'll last.
Christopher Lacy: Yeah, I agree with you. I think, we're seeing it happen for more of a fashion reason, you know, with productions of masks. But I, but I do think, to your point, that will slow down. And I think the panic of it, all of everyone kind of thinking, we need to do things to stay afloat now, we do this dramatic shift. But you make a very good point, which is essentially, we like to kind of go back to what felt comfortable. And one of those things that felt comfortable for a lot of people, from an emotional perspective, is being in a store and engaging in a store. With that being said, one of the most emotionally frustrating things for people who go to a store and engage with it is I came here, and you don't have the product I'm looking for.
Paul Magel: Yep.
Christopher Lacy: And then they want you to buy it online. And that I think is just the biggest breakdown, with a brick and mortar experience.
Paul Magel: That goes back to where retail was heading and that's that true omni-channel experience. So, whether I'm on the web, whether I'm in the store, you know, whether I'm through a partner or a vendor, that retailer knows who I am. We have a much more collaborative consumer environment. And even if you have a wholesale or selling through to retail, going forward, the knowledge of who your consumer is, the engagement with those consumers, are going to be key. And to your point, having that seamless interaction, no matter what channel you interact with that consumer on, it's seamless. So again, as long as you've opted in and as long as there are no privacy issues, the retailers have the ability to know where you've been on their websites, so when you walk into stores, beacons can go off, they can direct you to the areas that you're actually looking to on the website. A lot of folks are putting in cubbies in the back of the store. So, if you place an order, you just go into the back and pick it up. Then they're moving them through other areas of the stores, where we'll have more impulse buys as they go on to pick up what they ordered online. So, you know, again, that's what everyone's really trying to figure out the balance in that mix. Even companies like Amazon are opening brick and mortar stores, so brick and mortar is not dead. I believe that experience and customer service is going to be key too brick and mortar; but it's an experience people want. Not everyone wants to sit behind a computer and do everything. And again, I think there'll be some pull back and rebound effect, ‘cause we've been doing this now for eight months. We've probably got another few more months and they'll, there will almost be a reaction that I want to get back and engage more than I did in the past, because of what I just went through for the last nine months.
Christopher Lacy: That's a great point, Paul. And I mean really to summarize what I would think someone could take from this, when we talk about supply chain and the future is, really diversification, but also a level of patience, is going to be really important for retailers navigating this entire space and really looking at what that means, in all aspects of their business.
Yeah, I agree. It And don't forget the partnership piece because I think it's going to be key to have partnerships all along, to make it work going forward. But absolutely the diversification, multi-sourcing strategies and then partnerships, both with your customers and your vendors, so that you're all kind of in this together, working together and no one's going to get hung out to dry on their own.
When we talk about e-commerce you all at CGS did an amazing sustainability report. And I want to bring this up because I think something that is talked about a lot when we discuss there's the talk of materialities and all those things that go into it. But I actually want to understand what's happening in supply chains. Is there a way to make the supply chain process truly sustainable and transparent? And I ask you that because the reporting that CGS did was across the US and the UK. And what you all found was, between the US and UK, 40 percent of consumer are saying sustainability matters to me. What's shocking about that is of the age group that said sustainability mattered most were 65. Tha being said the group that said that they are willing to pay 50% to a 100% more for sustainability was the group of millennials and Gen Z.
So, I wonder, when you're thinking about this, you see this come in and you're dealing with your clients. How do you kind of see supply chain processes becoming sustainable, so that they can capture this customer?
Paul Magel: Yeah. So, Chris, that's a great question. And there's a lot in that question from, how is it accomplished? How important is it to be accomplished? And how do you do that? So, you know, a couple of things, one is I think whenever we talk sustainability and it's an important conversation that everybody's having more. When I talk about, we have this more conscious consumer, who are looking to be, and do things better for the planet, better for people across the globe. But sustainability has a lot of different definitions when you talk through it. Is it labor compliance and fair wages and fair employment practices? Is it lessening the amount of refuge going into, landfills and things? Is it tracking the wool from the sheep all the way through the manufacturing process to make sure we're following the appropriate rules?
So sustainability is a big piece. As you mentioned, our surveys and in speaking to people was kind of a hotter topic early on. It's waned, somewhat through the pandemic. Some of that I give kind of to the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you know, when people are worried about their health and their safety, sometimes the, the betterment of the world takes a little bit of a second seat, but I always say that as really a bit of a temporary setback. And it's also a financial piece to it to your point. If we're spending, 15, 25, 50% more, if people are losing their paycheck and things, they have to eat. So as long as they can get a garment or they can get goods, they're less concerned of spending all that extra money just to make sure it's sustainable.
But again, I think sustainability is, is here to stay. Can you guarantee a hundred percent sustainability from the beginning to end? Yes. I think there's technology and there's ways to do that. But remember supply chain is appropriately called supply chain for a reason because it's a chain of events. It's a chain of partners across all the different span of control from raw materials to vendors, sometimes sewers manufacturing, plants, cutters. Sometimes they move across different areas. And you're only as strong as your weakest link. So, when you look at technology practices and technology platforms like Bitcoin, who can track, and it's a ledger-based system, who can track every piece of the supply chain, but you're only as strong as the weakest link. So, if you have a vendor who's not on that supply chain and is providing some goods at this point, then you don't have that full visibility. It's also very expensive to run a large bit chain, back office solution as well, in terms of resources that it requires and those types of things.
We see it today, even with, everybody's best efforts, vendors who subcontract to non-compliant vendors and it's hard to track.
So one, sustainability is here to stay and will continue to be an important for the marketplace. Two, with some of the tool sets that we're building and what's available in the marketplace and the platforms that are coming out to allow for supply chain visibility and why the big push for digitization of supply chain, you know, all the way from the sewer, to the showroom, is important. That'll get us much, much further as we're going. And we're also starting to see on a much more formalization of what sustainability means. Things like the Higgs Index are coming out and allowing people to certify and measure and really get a much more scientific definition of sustainability, so consumers can make a much more educated, purchase. So, they actually know what that means, and it's not just a tagline on a garment that someone made up as part of a marketing campaign.
Christopher Lacy: When you are thinking about supply chain and talking to your partners about e-commerce will the rise of e-commerce put more pressure on the supply chain in that process of sustainability?
Will it put
Paul Magel: more pressure on the supplier? You know, it, it's an interesting question. And I think e-commerce in general will put more pressure on the supply chain because of what we talked about being rapid, a lot of companies are used to delivering things pallets at a time, now they're doing one at a time. I'm sure you're aware of some of the challenges with returns in e-commerce and how people shop on e-commerce.
But sustainability, you know, adds to that complexity, right? Because, not only now, do they want it now, they want it at the right price. They want it much more personalized to them rather than wearing something that everyone is wearing. They also want it to be, sustainable and biodegradable and traceable and made by people who are paid the appropriate wages and so it's just another level of complexity. Not only that you have to work on and make sure you're tracking within the supply chain, but then articulating that to the consumer, through your websites, through your marketing, through your branding. And sustainability becomes almost a inherent core culture of a company, or an inherent core mission of a company, versus just a marketing slogan, for it to really be successful.
Christopher Lacy: Yeah, I will say one of the things I found most interesting from your report that was done is, in the UK, there was a desire from consumers to want government to be involved in the regulation of that; of regulating how companies needed to be sustainable. And then in the US, that same question was asked, and US consumers said we don't think the government should really be involved in these regulations, it should be the onus of the brand. And I found that really interesting when we do consumer engagement studies, people will trust the brand. And that idea of, "I trust you as a brand; I also trust you to make the right decisions without being governed, to have to make the right decisions." And I found that super interesting.
Paul Magel: Yeah, it is very interesting. I think it goes back to kind of what we just talked about, is it becoming inherent in that brand culture and brand DNA. And that's what they trust, because then that's, that's all about the brand, right? Consistency. When they go to those brands, they know what they're getting, then not have to rely on a government agency to stamp it. But they know that no matter what comes out of that brand, they know what the core values are.
Christopher Lacy: Right. So, when we talk about what should be, just intrinsic of a brand, what is the number one mistake that you see new retailers making when it comes to their supply chain? You've seen it all at this point, but what is something that you're like, don't do it.
Paul Magel: Yeah. Again, I think it's a, it's a good summarization of kind of what we spoke about, it's don't be single sourced. Don't chase that cheapest needle. Try to get a beat on where their consumers are going. Look at the multi-source capabilities. There's a lot of technology platforms out there now, a long time ago in the technology world, uh, came out with something called crowdsourcing. So, if someone needed a program written, instead of having a team of programmers working for you, you would say, I need this program written, put it up on a platform and you'd have programmers bidding for that work throughout the world. We're seeing that now with marketing, where if you want a PowerPoint presentation designs, you know, even like a platform, like an Etsy, you want a customized poster, you've got all these artists who put out there and you have access to. Similarly, we're seeing sourcing platforms like that, where you need a garment made quickly, or you want something done. There's going to be easier ways to source across the globe or locally with the customers. So, when you're building out that supply chain, be multi sourced, multi focused, and really don't chase just the cheapest needle, but keep in mind the sustainability aspect, the ability to react quickly and pivot quickly because we don't know, none of us saw the pandemic coming. Hopefully, it's not again for another thousand years, but who knows where it will be or what the next type of disruption might be. And we've gotta be able to have multiple points that we can then rely on and not be stuck in any kind of single threaded, supply chain solution.
Christopher Lacy: So, I want to switch gears, because I want to ask you a personal question.
Paul Magel: Uh oh.
Christopher Lacy: Because you earlier said a very good point. And I, I worked in operations as well. You said, it is the unfashionable side of fashion. What do you enjoy most about operations and logistics and technology and this behind the scenes that most people probably don't know?
Paul Magel: Yeah. it's actually a good question again, being a technology vendor, sometimes I would, my immediate reaction would be, I'm not in really operational logistics, although to deliver a technology platform today and develop software and get it delivered to the customer at the right time and making sure it's meeting needs, there's a lot of operational logistics aspects to that. But also sitting on the other side of the table, as I mentioned earlier, from the customers and hearing what they're struggling with, as well, what I find exciting about operations and logistics is the problem-solving aspect of it. No two days are ever the same mode, no two logistic problems are ever the same. It's a lot of problem solving and it's a lot of forward type thinking and having to anticipate what those problems may be. Anticipating demand, anticipating the supply chain requirements to get it there on time. And then the problem solving, In terms of, when issues arise, how do you continue to get to your customer when they need it? And get it in the way that they want it? So, from my standpoint, different from, and why I didn't go into accounting. Accounting, your kind of looking in the rear view mirror and counting what happened in the past and, building reports from that. Operations and logistics is a here and now. It's a problem solving yype role within a business. But you also have to have some foresight about what's happening, so you're building the appropriate operational programs and procedures to deliver to anticipated demand or anticipated problems that may come up. And it's very challenging, and very invigorating and something I enjoy doing.
Christopher Lacy: So, Paul, what has made you successful in your field?
Paul Magel: Hopefully, it's not a debatable, uh, point, but, I think whether it's my it field or any field, sometimes it's the basic blocking and tackling, but I think one of the most important things, for anybody to excel in a career, excel in business, excel in their personal lives, it's really being able to communicate.
And I go back to my IBM days. I'll never forget an article I read in the Harvard Business Review, which talked about, not only how do you manage down, if you're a leader, but how do you manage up as well? Where you've got stakeholders, you have bosses and people that you're accountable to, and even your customers, you have to learn how to communicate.
The biggest part of communicating is listening, but also being able to articulate, especially in the technology world, you know, understanding of business problem, and then being able to articulate that back to your customers, to your employees, your developers, the business analysts about how that solution can work within a technology infrastructure.
So, whether you're a student, whether you're an employee, being able to communicate effectively, is quite important. I've had some communications with my team throughout this pandemic where we're now in this digital world and we're communicating with our customers. A lot of communication is not just your ears and listening and your mouth and talking. It's looking at body language, looking into the eyes and really trying to get the true meaning of, what that communication is. Are the people nervous when they're talking to? Are they uncomfortable? Are they very comfortable? You lose a lot of that when you're talking across a digital line, someone can be looking you in the eye on a computer screen, but they may be reading emails, even though you're talking to them. You're not quite sure. You can't see if they're fidgeting in their chair so much. You don't know if they're tapping their foot or, bending their pen. So, the communication aspect gets much more difficult in this, digital, only world. So, everything we've learned over the last and I, you know, I've learned over the last 30 plus years, all those cues and all those key performance indicators, or all the metrics, have to be re-evaluated, because now you can put the same data into that kind of gut feel that you built up over 30 years and get different results because people are coming from a very, very different place. And we don't necessarily have all of the same indicators because we're in this digital world, we really don't have that sense of communication that we've had in the past. So again, back to your question in a long-winded way, is that okay? In order for me to be successful, I really focused on communications and communicate clearly, with people not only subordinates and peers, but also to higher ups and bosses over the time, so I can make sure that I communicated to them the way they wanted to be communicated to. There's no one way to communicate. Communications an individual, kind of receptor and you have to communicate differently to everybody. Even it's the exact same information. It's not necessarily what you said, but how you say it. And if you do that in the appropriate way, you'll be successful.
Christopher Lacy: Paul, thank you so much. Communication has made you successful in your career but having foresight in the skills to problem solve has made you a revolutionary in your field.
Paul Magel: That's it.
Christopher Lacy: So, Paul...
Paul Magel: Yes, sir.
How can our listeners stay up to date with what you're doing?
I welcome, anybody to connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn. CGSinc.Com, CGSINC.com is our website. We have blogs. We put a lot of content out there on the industry. So, anyone who wants to keep up with things in the industry, that sustainability survey that you referenced is up there and available for download. We do a number of things like that. So, that's a great place to go as well. All of our new technology offerings and new announcements are also up on the web as well. So that's the most important way and easiest way to stay on track of what we're doing in the industry and in the marketplace.
Christopher Lacy: All right, Paul, I appreciate your time today. This was a great conversation and I hope to speak to you again soon.
Paul Magel: Absolutely. Chris, I enjoyed it and all the best. Stay well.
Christopher Lacy: You too.
Paul Magel: Thank you.
Joshua Williams: Thank you for listening to this episode of Retail Revolution. A very special thank you to everyone who has helped make this podcast possible. If you'd like to support the work we're doing, please visit our show page at RetailRevolutionPodcast.com and click on the donate link.
Our theme music was composed by Spencer Powell. Be well and stay tuned for our next episode.
