Transcript - Cheryl Stallworth
Joshua Williams: Retail Revolution is a special, limited podcast created specifically for "Retailing and Service Design," a unique course that is part of the Fashion Management graduate program at Parsons School of Design in New York City. Each episode features in depth conversations with guest experts in omnichannel retailing, with myriad perspectives: technology, consumer engagement, data analytics, merchandising, and more. We pay special attention to the short- and long- term challenges and implications of COVID-19 and potential opportunities to rethink retail's future. Retail Revolution is produced by Joshua Williams and hosted by Christopher Lacy, both are Assistant Professors in the School of Fashion at Parsons.
Christopher Lacy: I am your host, Christopher Lacy, and welcome to another episode of Retail Revolution podcast. Please be sure to subscribe to Retail Revolution podcast on your preferred streaming platform. You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and TuneIn. You can also access the Retail Revolution podcast, blog, transcripts, and previous episodes at RetailRevolutionPodcast.com.
Today, we have co-founder and board member of ShedLight. She is a 25-year marketing veteran who was CEO of Firefly, Kantar Millward Browns' North American qualitative research division for a decade. While there she changed the face of marketing research and strategy.
Please welcome to the show, Cheryl Stallworth.
Cheryl Stallworth: Hi Christopher. How are you?
Christopher Lacy: I am awesome Cheryl. I am so excited to have you on the show today because, I'm going to let our listeners know, for me, you are a mentor. And I only have two others and that's my parents. I always think about the first time we met, where we had lunch at a Tommy Bahamas, because we were strategizing a project with Barneys New York. And I feel like at that moment, I was just like, I love everything this woman is. So thank you for being on the show!
Cheryl Stallworth: And thank you. You're so kind. You're so kind.
Christopher Lacy: So, Cheryl, will you tell our listeners a bit about you? You've had such a phenomenal career.
Cheryl Stallworth: Well, I started my career in packaged goods and worked with companies like Colgate and Coca Cola and spent a lot of years learning the basics of brand management.
After having spent years in brand management, had some overseas assignments spending a total of eight years in Latin America, Central America specifically. Loved it. Came back to the States and due to some family challenges decided to leave the packaged goods business and joined the market research and consulting business.
And that's when I joined Firefly, which was then Greenfield, and worked there as a consultant, a managing director. But then, was called back to Colgate Palmolive and asked to lead a global effort and then some overseas efforts, so spent some time there. But then interestingly, when the CEO and founder of Firefly decided to retire, he called me back to run the company. So, I went back and forth basically between two companies over a 20-year period. And I guess the lesson is don't burn your bridges!
Christopher Lacy: That's a good lesson.
So, after working through packaged goods, and going back and forth In these roles, what do you think the fashion industry needs to learn or implement from any of the industries you worked across? Because, I believe in cross pollination and you can learn from other industries.
Cheryl Stallworth: Well, I think there's a couple of things. I would say brand purpose is really important. And everybody’s talking about brand purpose, that thing that you stand for that informs everything that you do as a brand, and that extends your reach beyond just making a dollar. It's what you give back that's important. So, I think that brand purpose and defining it, understanding it, is key.
I also think that benevolence that has an important role in the purpose of a brand. A good example for me is Colgate Palmolive. As I mentioned, I lived and worked in Latin America for Colgate. Colgate did something about 50 years ago in Latin America, that was amazing. They started handing out samples of toothpaste and developing school programs for children, to improve their oral health. And long story short, they went around the countries in Latin America, partnered with teachers, partnered with dental professionals, and really taught oral health.
As a result, people go to the store and they ask for "Colgahtay". They don't ask for toothpaste. Colgate probably has 70 or 80% share in Latin America and many other developing countries. And they really have come to embody oral health. And as you know, oral health is systemic. So, if your mouth is healthy, there's a good chance that you have a healthier body.
So, I think that that's a great case study in how you contribute to a community; how you contribute to societies; and at the same time builds your business.
Christopher Lacy: I appreciate the word benevolence. I don't think we really have used that word in talking about brand DNA. And just what a brand should be about, especially when we talk in terms of fashion retail, because it's been so product focused for so long; the need to understand that product isn't the most important part of a business anymore, because product is everywhere. And, when I think about that, I think about consumer insights and what you do, which brings me to wanting to understand from you, you said benevolence is important for brand identity. What do you think is driving or will start to really drive buying behavior as we continue through this pandemic and start to come out on the other side of it?
Cheryl Stallworth: I don't really know. We've been doing a recent study on how Coronavirus is impacting people who are basically sliding out of the middle class, because they can't make ends meet and they're living paycheck to paycheck.
We've also interviewed people who haven't been affected economically. Everyone says that we as a society have become too materialistic and that's ironic, coming from a marketer. But, one of the reasons that I was interested in starting to ShedLight, is because I didn't want to sell things to people that they didn't really need anymore. So, down to a person, they hope that we become less materialistic as a society.
People pay attention to brands. And I read a study, not that long ago that said that people trust brands more than they trust governments. You may have seen the same study. And so, it could be the role of brands, in addition to less materialism, or driving less materialism, brands have a great opportunity to heal and nurture communities. and it’s ironic, but we are not what we possess. And I think that's what you were saying before.
Christopher Lacy: Right.
Cheryl Stallworth: But we've come to think we are what we possess.
Christopher Lacy: I appreciate the reference to middle class that you just made. Something I've talked a lot about is when we look at the luxury industry, there is the need for aspirational clients.
And I feel like over the years, we haven't cared enough about the aspirational client. They're the fun part, really, of the luxury industry, right? It's that I finally got this job and so I can afford this item, or I've been saving up for this. And because there's been so much erosion in the middle class, we really don't have that happening as much anymore. They don't even have money to try to save, to put aside, to buy a really cool handbag or the coolest pair of shoes that they've always wanted, or that amazing new suit. If we look at just demographics, at gender, race, generational; I just want to know from you, what do you think is kind of going to be the most influential demographic in the next two years, as we continue in this way? Unless the middle-class bounces back, I don't really know kind of what we could expect in the future.
Cheryl Stallworth: I went to March For Our Lives, a huge demonstration in Washington, that the young people from Parkland initiated. And I don't think anybody on the stage was over 21 and they were phenomenal.
Christopher Lacy: Wow.
Cheryl Stallworth: And they inspire me. So, all this talk about young people don't do this and young people don't do that. I don't agree. And look at what they're doing now. They're protesting against injustice. I think there are fantastic generation and they inspire me every day.
Christopher Lacy: I agree with you with Gen Z. They, they've done something that I think no other generation has done, which is, the way that you all have proceeded with life has been reckless and we are tired of your reckless behavior. Right. Because a lot of things have happened to Gen-Zers as they've grown up. And so, they're like, we don't want any of that. What, what you guys put out, we don't want any of that and we want to change it. And so I think that's beautiful.
So, to your point, they're changing things and changing things for the better. So yeah, let's let them be in the driver's seat for sure.
Cheryl Stallworth: Yeah.
Christopher Lacy: You and I had a conversation once and you asked me one of the most interesting questions and I think about it weekly. And I think about it to a point that it actually changed the way I looked at strategizing businesses; how I look at everything. You asked me a question; you said, if a bank came to you and they needed the bank of the future, who would you talk to, to get ideas for the,
Cheryl Stallworth: I can't believe I asked you that question.
Christopher Lacy: You did!
Cheryl Stallworth: Oh my gosh. I hope I don't have to answer it.
Christopher Lacy: No actually, I'm going to give you the one that's kinda like that. And, so I'm like, putting some names together, like whatever, and you go, you know what I would do? And I said, what? And you go, I would, I would reach out to sci-fi authors. And I looked at you like what? And you were like, yeah, I would reach out to authors of sci-fi books and get them in a room and ask them what they think the bank of the future would be. And in that moment, it was where I learned you really get to push the limits. And I also learned how I hadn't been pushing the limits when I was looking at my business in retail enough, and that I was in a system in fashion retail, where we really weren't pushing the limits enough.
Huh.
That one conversation sparked a lot for me.
Cheryl Stallworth: Yeah. That's actually a good idea for retail. There's a sci-fi author museum in the Northwest and the Pacific Northwest, and you can call them. I called them once.
Christopher Lacy: Of course, you did.
Cheryl Stallworth: And, so I think there's like a collective of Sci-fi authors that you can contact. And I'll leave that to your listeners, but that could be something very interesting for retailers to think about.
Christopher Lacy: Well, then you just answered my question because my question to you was going to be, what do you think the retail of the future looks like?
Cheryl Stallworth: You know, I gotta tell ya nothing new here, in addition to the Sci-fi idea, which, you and I should work on that, that sounds fun.
Christopher Lacy: I'm in.
Cheryl Stallworth: But live stores, as you know, you know, this better than I do, have to create an experience or make you want to go there, right?
Mmhm.
And I have a question, and this is before Corona hit, but why is the Apple store always crowded and nobody's buying anything necessarily? Why is it always crowded? And why do you always have to make an appointment to go there? Why is Sephora always packed with people?
You can get makeup in a lot of places. Why Sephora?
Christopher Lacy: Yeah.
Cheryl Stallworth: I think it's because they create an experience.
Christopher Lacy: Well, they do, but you know what, in addition to experience, they also create consistency, and when I was in my role at Barney's, I probably said that to our teams: there has to be consistency. There has to be that foundation of consistency, and then that connection to locality. And what's amazing to me is that if you go to the Apple store in Soho and you go to the Apple store in San Francisco, they’ve created something that it just feels the same. It feels like you absolutely belong there, no matter where you go in the world.
Cheryl Stallworth: Yes.
Christopher Lacy: And I think Sephora does the same thing and I don't know that every business has really sat down and thought, how do we make that feeling happen?
Cheryl Stallworth: And it's interesting because, probably not to the same extent as Sephora and Apple, you can get the same things and I don't want to impugn any retail chain, but you can get the same things in Target and Walmart, right?
Christopher Lacy: For the most part.
Cheryl Stallworth: For the most part, you can get a lot of the same things. You can get the same things in Aldi and Walmart. Why is it that people want to go to Target more? And again, not to impune Walmart. I know they're trying to work on this, but people want to go to Target. They feel good going to Target. It doesn't matter how much money you have, going to target it’s cool. Right?
Christopher Lacy: It's so funny you bring this up, because my mom and I are always of two different minds. When I go back home to Dallas and she's like, oh, I need to go to Walmart. I'm like, I’ll take you to Target. And she's like, I'm not I'm, no. And I'm like, no, I can't go into Walmart. Like I have to go to Target.
Cheryl Stallworth: Right?! And It's, it's a different experience.
Christopher Lacy: Well, the, the Target experience is also, I think, if you're really into aesthetics and just things being lined up in a way where it's not overwhelming, that would be Target for me. And I think about department stores in the same way, I have a very hard time shopping and in a lot of department stores because I can't understand the product. I don't know what's going on. It just seems like tons of stuff everywhere,
Cheryl Stallworth: Too much stuff,
Christopher Lacy: It's too much
Cheryl Stallworth: stuff. And
Christopher Lacy: I feel like when I go into certain places, if it's too much stuff, I just, I get overwhelmed. I feel like my body's overheating and I have to leave. You know what I mean? So,
Cheryl Stallworth: Yeah,
Christopher Lacy: I think that's part of it.
Cheryl Stallworth: Your listeners won't remember this, but Macy's on 34th street in New York City, used to be a destination. And they were bought out. And their whole vibe changed. But I would say, maybe it's the late eighties, early nineties Macy's was the place to go. And they had cool things, and it had a cool vibe, and it was a destination store. B oomingdale's have that. A lot of department stores have really lost that.
Christopher Lacy: Yeah.
Cheryl Stallworth: And I don't know if the department store format lends itself for that kind of destination revitalization because the footprint is huge, and the rents are so high. And people don't want to go to department stores now for that experience anymore, that I know of.
Christopher Lacy: No. And I think, Joshua Williams and I have discussed this where there are companies like Neighborhood Goods, which I think is what the future of department stores will look like.
To your point, the footprint is smaller. And I think people are definitely going to be cautious about how big a space is, and how many people can fit into a space. Right? So, it's kind of this thing, where do you need nine floors of product anymore? What does curation look like? What does intimacy look like? And I think. When we look at Neighborhood Goods, they do that really well. They have a store in Dallas. They have one at Chelsea Market. They just opened in Austin, literally like 24 hours before everything got shut down for COVID. So, hopefully it'll come back around. But I think that kind of footprint is where we'll go in the department store space.
Cheryl Stallworth: I think so.
Christopher Lacy: I want to turn this inward a bit because there's a lot happening in our world right now. And I can't not have this conversation with you, especially because it's an important conversation to have and your voice is important to it.
And I want to hear from you because you've had a seat at the table of some of the biggest companies in the world and you've been advising in that space. You've been in the rooms with those executives. You were a C level executive. You've started your own nonprofit organization. I need to understand, how did you approach being heard and respected as a black woman in this space, at the time you were doing it? Because...
Cheryl Stallworth: Yeah, I started long time ago. Well, not that long ago!
Well, you know, that's such a good question because I think early on, It was a little bit daunting. I have a lot of friends that were in MBA school in the eighties, and we started working and there weren't that many black MBAs, let alone females. So, we were kind of like lab rats, right?
It was the first wave of people of color that went into brand marketing. And the companies were glad to have us. They wanted us, they hired us. There was a big push toward diversity. And I think if the vibe or the intent was really good, it was harder once you got started because people didn't really know what to do with some of us when we got there.
And, if it's like a guy wants to date a woman, I'll use that as an example, a guy who wants to date a woman or a guy once date a guy, but then when they find out if the person is a little bit harder to control than they thought, then they want to break up.
Christopher Lacy: So, you
Cheryl Stallworth: So.
Christopher Lacy: Just said the story of my life.
Cheryl Stallworth: Yeah, I think that that's hard. You know, people relate to people who are like them and they develop friendships with people who are like them. And so if someone's not like you, they're not gonna, like the guys didn't invite me to go golfing with them or to go to the bar after work with them. And so I didn't have that many people that I could honestly say were sponsors. And I don't mean mentors. I mean, sponsors, I mean people that are going to get you promoted people, they're going to get more money in your pocket, people that are gonna see that your career moves forward.
And I really didn't have that early on. And so, you have to sort of fend for yourself, which is what I did. And I think that once I got hip to the game. Once I knew what I was dealing with, then I really think a couple of principles helped me. One was being myself, right? And you know, me, I have my long dreadlocks. I will not cut them off. And I don't even think anybody really paid attention to them by the way at work. But I also was always, I think, prepared. You know, being prepared. Cause there were times when I wasn't as prepared as I could have been, but I focused as I started to again, figure out the game I'm being really prepared, overly prepared, knowing my stuff, reading, doing the background work, doing the homework.
I also learned... and I could be very tough and hard on people early in my career, probably because I felt that people were hard on me. I also learned to be kind. And I'm naturally I think a kind person, but I learned to bring that to the workplace. And when I ran Firefly for all those years, I think the refrain is that we created a kind and loving environment.
I worked for a guy who ran Colgate once, and he always told me it's better to motivate with love and fear. And I never forgot that. And so I think being kind is highly underrated. I also speak up a lot for what I believe in. And now with social media, I've gotten even bolder.
And finally, I think that one of the things I learned from a great personal coach that I hired to help me navigate corporate America, is that you train people how to treat you. And people know what they should and shouldn't say, and what they can and cannot get away with. And you kind of have to go into most environments with that in mind, I train you how to treat me. I will be kind to you, but I will not accept being treated as less than. Period. But you can do all that stuff in a really kind way and a really benevolent way. And you can teach people in the process. So that's kind of the way I have navigated the rocky, the rocky shores of corporate America.
Christopher Lacy: Everything you, you said, you know, if someone were to ask me that same question, I feel like I'd pretty much answered the same way, especially the-- and it took me time to understand-- teach people how you want to be treated. Because, I was of such a mindset that I was lucky to be there in the beginning and that I was like, okay, fine. Like I'll just deal with it. And, you know, either take on more work unnecessarily or, or even allow for people to kind of talk to me crazy, and kind of move on. And there just became a point where I was like, this isn't working. And I remember in the beginning of my career, because like you, I really had no reference point. And so, there was that time of, I’ll do what it is I need to do and keep my head down and not say anything.
And I paid the price of it with how I felt going into work every day. And then I just got to a point where I was like, absolutely not. We're not doing this. I will not talk myself out of rooms I deserve to be in. And I think once I realized that, and then leaning into my kindness, It was very easy for me to set the tone of how I wanted to be treated. And if they had a problem with treating me with respect, well, that was their problem, because I was going to get it. So...
Cheryl Stallworth: Yeah, that's right. That's right. And you know, there are companies that I have left because I didn't feel like it was the right environment for me, and you grow. So, sometimes things can be the right environment, or an environment can be good for you when you start.
But as you grow, you change. And it no longer serves you. And the thing that I really do have to say is that, I absolutely loved my last experience, as it related to people who became my sponsors, Firefly, it's part of WPP or it was, and Kantar, it's a lot of organizations, a lot of companies. And I worked with some women who were like group CEOs. So, they ran a lot of companies and boutiques within a big organization. And they were truly sponsors. They believed in me, they helped me, they nurtured me, and they made the path easier. And I think it's because when you work for people who recognize who you are and what you can contribute and that you do bring talent. You are so much more successful, but I don't think a lot of women have had that. I don't think a lot of black folks or Latinas or Latinos have had it. I think that a lot of people who don't fit the classic corporate image have been left out of the equation.
I think it's changing, but boy, imagine the potential we could unleash if people were allowed to really flourish in these corporate jobs, no matter the industry.
Christopher Lacy: It is so powerful to think about it. And actually there's one of our students who is working on a thesis, which is around that whole idea of lost Einsteins, and...
Cheryl Stallworth: Oh, that's a great, that's a great idea. My husband always talks about that, you know, I love that, excuse me, for cutting you off.
Christopher Lacy: No, no.
Cheryl Stallworth: But that's so great.
Christopher Lacy: Because it is, it's amazing. And I think it kind of hits you when you think about it. Like, could we be farther ahead if we would have just had a society where people, all people, were able to have a voice. And so, you have all these different perspectives. And that's why diverse voices are so important in companies and why the fashion industry has probably had such a hard time, with keeping up, because you may have hired diversity, but the inclusion of those diverse voices in decision making was void. And I think for retail to really have its revolution and to move in the right direction to get those gains that they've always wanted is you have to let those diverse voices be heard all the way down to if you are a stock associate, figure out a way for stock associates to be able to have a voice. Cause they're going to tell you what's wrong with your operational systems. So, you know, it's
Cheryl Stallworth: Yeah.
Christopher Lacy: That granular, right?
Cheryl Stallworth: And it's not just diversity in terms of ethnicity or gender. It is diversity of thought and intellect that makes you better. And we know this, we know that it is proven that diverse organizations are more successful because they allow more ideas to get in the door.
I mean, it's simple. It's so simple.
Christopher Lacy: It really isn't so hard.
So, I want to ask you about your newest project, which is ShedLight, because ShedLight is giving a voice to a very specific demographic. And I would love for you to talk about ShedLight and its mission. Cause it's important for everyone to hear what that's about and what you're doing.
Cheryl Stallworth: Sure. What we do is bring the life stories to life of the growing number of people in America--and we focus on America-- who have a hard time getting by. And that's about a hundred million people. So, it's bigger than the Baby Boom. And we develop these storytelling videos through research, through ethnographic research, and we use a variety of tools, including going into people's homes, when we're able to, to bring new insights and to really help people understand that segment of our population. And we've all heard the headlines, right? We all have the metadata that talks about people sliding out of the middle class and the fact that people can't afford very small expenses and if they're living paycheck to paycheck. But we don't really hear these people's voices.
So ShedLight is about creating a portal, or creating live experiences for audiences, when we can do that again, that make us all aware of what these consumers are going through. And the fact they're our friends, they're our neighbors. We don't even know they're struggling.
Christopher Lacy: Mm.
Cheryl Stallworth: So, that's what we're about. And it entails a lot because there are people with differing political beliefs that we listened to. There are people of different races that we listen to. Rural people, a lot of their stories aren't getting out there. We have a lot of rural Americans who are really, really having a hard time. They can't get medical care and healthcare is the big economic glass ceiling for a lot of people. So that's what we focus on. And in addition to getting these stories out through live interactions at universities, we were again, you know, COVID, but we 'were going to speak at South by Southwest. But in addition to that, we're now going to put together a portal that gets those voices in front of people. And. I just want to say that I get so frustrated, because I'm a news junkie, watching the talking heads, who all come from these privileged media, technology, corporate bubbles, talking about people who are poor. And by the way, people who are poor at work every day. Why don't we have citizens on these shows, talking about their experiences? I don't know, but that's one of the things ShedLight wants to do. We want to get the real stories out there and it's, it's quite challenging and it's fun and it's sad and it's exhilarating. And I think that when people participate in the work that we do, it's like therapy for them and they tell us, call us any time. We want to talk. So, people are dying to tell their stories. And so, if you want to see more, you can go to ShedLight.org and their videos and things like that. And, a lot of information about this segment of the population and the overall American divide.
Christopher Lacy: Lately we've been hearing about brands saying that they have to be OK having the uncomfortable conversation. They have to be okay having the uncomfortable conversation around inclusivity. And I wanted to ask you, Cheryl, why is it an uncomfortable conversation for them to have? To me, it doesn't seem, I don't know why they consider it to be uncomfortable. Do you have any thoughts that?
Cheryl Stallworth: I do, and I actually think it relates back to what we're doing with ShedLight. So, I'm going to stitch those two things together. This question I thought was so good and I found it kind of hard to answer. Number one, because America is like an adolescent. We get really excited about things; we go in and “gung ho,” whether we have a plan or not, doesn't matter, right? And so, now people are getting exhausted and they think that America's becoming too politically correct. Right? So, you see all these posts on social media about black lives matter. It's like, come on enough, let's get back to normal. So, I think there was that, and I don't think that's discomfort. That's just a symptom of people really speaking out a lot.
But back to your question. I digress. Back to your question. Brands continue to say that they have to be okay having the uncomfortable conversations, right?
Christopher Lacy: Hmhm.
Cheryl Stallworth: I think, and I hope this doesn't sound too simplistic, we as groups are too socially divided. And by that, I mean, we hang out with people that are like us too much. And that's why ShedLight is so great, because it forces me to get to know people who are not like me, have very different experiences. So, you think about senior leaders in a corporation, especially in our part of the world, the New York Metro area. Senior leaders here are very wealthy, right? Compared to most Americans.
Christopher Lacy: Mmhm.
Cheryl Stallworth: They went to some pretty prestigious schools. And it might sound simple, but one little step is get some different friends, get some different friends. If you went to Harvard and you live in a wealthy neighborhood, expand your base! Go out with some people who are not like you.
If you're running a company, go out with some of those employees and talk, have dinner, go to a club, get out of your bubble. That to me is it's a little step. But think about how many people you know, don't have friends who are of a different race.
Christopher Lacy: Mmhm.
Cheryl Stallworth: Now we, as black people and Latinx people and Asians, we have to have friends of different races.
Christopher Lacy: It's true.
Cheryl Stallworth: Because there's just more of them. But, a lot of people don't associate with people who are not like them. And when you have friends and associates, and neighbors that are different from you, you begin to have more empathy for people who are not living in your world. And for sure senior executives need to do that, because how can you run a company with all different kinds of people, and you don't associate with any of those people? Just doesn't. I can't, it doesn't make sense to me.
I think that businesses have to figure out that diversity issue. They have all kinds of people like Apple. Apple just wrote a check for $120 million to contribute, I think, to the conversation of greater equality in America or to help the cause if you will.
Christopher Lacy: Hmhm.
Cheryl Stallworth: But then I looked at a picture of their senior leadership and if I am not incorrect, there were 12 people in the picture. There were 10 white men and two white women. Charity begins at home. So, I'm not down on Apple. I love their products. I love what they do. But that's a good place to start. I think that diversity breeds diversity. So, if you have a diverse team at the top of an organization, you're going to automatically attract a lot of different kinds of people, both intellectually and in terms of culture. And I just think that we're not working hard enough at that as corporate people, and it's not that difficult. You just have to decide you're going to do it.
We have some of the finest minds in the business world, in the United States. And if we have the will we can do it, but we have not demonstrated the will to do it as corporate leaders.
Christopher Lacy: And that right there is why I say you are my mentor.
Cheryl Stallworth: We can do this; we can do this. You know, and I just don't think that there are any more excuses.
But again, get out of your bubble.
I go to these dinners and everybody went to an Ivy League school at the dinners that I go to for some of the philanthropies that I'm involved in. And these are well, meaning people do not get me wrong, but I think that they would all agree that they need to figure it out and get out of the bubble.
And that's what we do at ShedLight. We help people get out of their bubbles.
Christopher Lacy: Cheryl, I am so glad you started ShedLight. I am so glad that we were able to hear your voice today. This conversation I could probably, and you know this, you and I can talk for hours, ‘cause I always want to hear your thoughts on things. But I want our listeners to be able to get in touch with you, or find out just what's going on, either through your LinkedIn, Instagram, is there a website that they can stay up on Cheryl Stallworth?
Cheryl Stallworth: Well, first of all, if people want to connect with me, please hit me on LinkedIn. It's Cheryl Stallworth Hooper. It's hyphenated. And that's my LinkedIn. So, I'm the only one there with that long name. So, LinkedIn connect with me there.
And our website is ShedLight.org, but feel free to hit me on email cheryl@ShedLight.org, and I promise you I will respond. And then we can connect about how you might join our movement, if you're interested.
Christopher Lacy: That is fantastic. Thank you so much for your time today. I hope you have a great weekend coming up and I'll be in touch with you soon.
So we'll be talking soon.
Cheryl Stallworth: OK, thank you.
Thank you so much, Cheryl.
This has been great.
Christopher Lacy: Thank you. Bye bye.
Joshua Williams: Thank you for listening to this episode of Retail Revolution. A very special thank you to everyone who has helped make this podcast possible, our guests, our students and fellow faculty at Parsons School of Design, especially in such an extraordinary and unprecedented time. Our theme music was composed by Spencer Powell.
Be well and stay tuned for our next episode.
