Transcript - Meisha Brown

Joshua Williams: Retail Revolution is a special, limited podcast created specifically for "Retailing and Service Design," a unique course that is part of the Fashion Management graduate program at Parsons School of Design in New York City. Each episode features in depth conversations with guest experts in omnichannel retailing with myriad perspectives: technology consumer engagement, data analytics, merchandising, and more. We pay special attention to the short- and long- term challenges and implications of COVID-19 and potential opportunities to rethink retail's future. Retail Revolution is produced by Joshua Williams and hosted by Christopher Lacy, both are Assistant Professors in the School of Fashion at Parsons.

Christopher Lacy: Welcome Retail Revolutionaries. Very excited to have you on today's episode of Retail Revolution, where we discuss all things pertaining to Retailing and Service design, I'm super excited about today's conversation because they revolve around the world of merchandising and being a really amazing buyer.

And what that impact is on store line sales and online sales. So today we have with us, someone I have had as a former colleague and I get to call a very, very great friend is Vice President of department stores sales. Meisha Brown. Thank you, Meisha. 

Meisha Brown: Thank you and Hello everybody. I'm so excited to have this conversation and really start talking about what is going on in the Retail world today.

Christopher Lacy: For sure. I mean, I think this is probably one of the conversations I've really looked forward to because There's going to be a lot of changes that happen in the industry after we get through this particular crisis, I think one of the conversations that are always brought up to me is the excitement of people wanting to be a Buyer.

So, it will be really enjoyable to get into this conversation and dig down into the edges. But before we do, I want you to tell our listeners more about you and your career trajectory. 

Meisha Brown: Absolutely. So, I started my career 17 years ago, at Saks fifth Avenue through their executive buyer training program, which was, and still is an amazing program.

I would highly suggest it to anyone interested in moving into finance, worked at Saks for about three and a half, four years, in their contemporary office. Left Saks and moved over to Barney's as an associate buyer in their, what was then called, co-op division. which is contemporary as well, and work in their co-op division, moved up to become the denim buyer for several years.

Worked with many, many, many denim brands and denim collections, and then was promoted to the Senior Buyer over a contemporary collection. And then my last, during my last few years at Barney's, I was the senior buyer for women designer, handbags and accessories. So, I have a good wealth of knowledge on contemporary, on ready to wear on the women's side, on denim, and on designer accessories.

Left Barney, unfortunately, after they went through bankruptcy. And now I find myself working for Kering Eyewear as their Vice President of department store sale, which is super exciting. Working in eyewear, I was the buyer over eyewear at Barney. So, I was familiar with the company and the brands.

So, working there, and partnering with the department stores to build their eyewear business.  

Christopher Lacy: That's fantastic. And I want to highlight, for just a moment, you know, for me, I love hearing about your career trajectory. And frankly, because you are an African American female in this industry.

And I think it's important that we acknowledge that because no one can see us, but you know, there's not that many African American females in your role and have had your career trajectory. So, I do want to highlight the fact that you've made your way in this industry, because it can be difficult at many times.

Meisha Brown: It can, and I am glad you highlighted it. I'm so, so proud of that part of myself. You know, I have a good network of, we call ourselves the BGF, The Black Girls, and we all started off at Saks and we're all still friends and all pretty much still in this industry. And in different companies throughout the US and you know, we talk all the time and, you know, we don't see a lot of our faces in the workplace.

So, I am very proud of the accomplishments I've made and, you know, the things that I've done and, you know, representing myself and it's great. 

Christopher Lacy: Yeah. And I think, I think even just aside from that, I think, you know, when we talk about inclusion and diversity, in the fashion industry, even outside of color, no matter what it is, I mean right now we're talking about so many different things where it comes to a gender bias and a female representation and representation of color.

I think all those things. I think whenever we see, people that are able to make their way, it's one important for us to be sure to have a voice, to, to speak to others, to help them move along as well. But it's also really important to highlight that and to celebrate our successes when we have them.

Meisha Brown: Absolutely!

Christopher Lacy: So, I want to ask you about first out is. Being a buyer. There's so many things people think, I think there are two roles that people kind of idealized and one is being in PR and the PR marketing and the other is, is being a Buyer for an organization. So, I want to ask you the biggest misconceptions people have about being a Buyer or a Merchant.

Meisha Brown: There are so many. So, the main ones are that I am flying all over the world. I'm going to Fashion shows and spending an unlimited amount of money with no financial responsibility and that I get all the free clothes that I want. That is what most people think I do on a regular basis. You know, it's just not as glamorous as people think, at all.

And it's funny because I don't know where that misconception comes from. It's not like when you watch TV or, you know, on social media buyers are represented, you know, there. So, it's just this odd misconception that you know, that's what people think that you do as a buyer. But I will tell you the good thing is yes; you do get to travel.

Yes, I do get to go to Fashion shows and yes, every now and then there is some free stuff .The bad, which is not bad, but the reality is that 80% of your time is spent analyzing spreadsheets, sitting behind a desk and dealing with the pressures of making numbers and that's the reality of the job.

The other piece is a very small portion of it, of if you love numbers and love spreadsheets, and you know, obviously you love product because that's a part of it. You love building relationships cause you're constantly fostering relationships with vendors. Then this can be a great path for you, because I think most people do love to travel and most people do love going to a fashion show and who doesn't love free stuff. So, you know, if you can love all that and all this bad stuff, they're real. Then I think you have the potential to be a great buyer. 

Christopher Lacy: So, when you talk about, you said, you know, sitting at a desk, 80% of the time looking at spreadsheets and the financial responsibility, what are those analytics, what analytics are you using to make decisions about those assortments?

Meisha Brown: So, you're looking at your sales. You're looking at your sell through of your inventory that you bought. You're looking at Mark Downs, you're looking at gross margin. You're looking at markups. How much money are you making on the product that you're selling? You're looking at inventory level, to make sure you're not over inventory and make sure you're not under inventory and missing opportunity. You're looking at various different factors, financial factors to run your business. 

Christopher Lacy: So, when we talk, when you talk about sell through. Is there a kind of a percentage that you usually looking to hear when you talk about sell through in a certain amount of time for full price collection?

Meisha Brown: Yeah. So, you know, that can really vary based on the category. I think anyone would say a 50% sell through is a healthy sell through, you know, kind of like no complaints. We sold through half of the inventory we bought. But there are you know, most companies because they have a breadth of plans.

Are you challenged with higher sell-thrus? So, it could be anywhere from a 60% sell through or up. It varies by category. If there's my company, I've heard some companies say their minimum sell throughs are 70%. I've heard other companies say our minimum sell through is a 40%. So that, you know, there's not one number that works across.

Across every category and across every company. But I think you could safely say 50% is a healthy sell through for really any, any category. 

Christopher Lacy: Okay. And is it based on a certain amount of time, like six weeks sell through or eight weeks or in your roles? What, what were you kind of looking at?

Meisha Brown: Yeah. So, I would say anywhere between three to four, three to five months, I would say, cause that's typically a full price selling season. You know, if you get your visit in January or February and you're planning on marking them down by you know, May or June, then you want to be able to have a healthy, full price sell through. But before you actually mark the goods down.

Christopher Lacy: Okay. And then that's where things like margin, you know, plays a huge role because when we talk about markdowns, you're still able to make money on that first markdown. So, you know, even if the sell through is at full price first Mark down, the way that percentage is, if you sell through enough of a, you've still been able to protect the company's gross margin, it gets a little scary.

Meisha Brown: It does get scary, but I always say that markdowns are a cost of doing business. If you're in the retail game, it is inevitable that you are going to have to have markdowns. No one likes markdowns, brands don't like it because it dilutes their brand image. Stores don't like it because they're you know not getting the same margin on the goods, but it's the way retail operates. It's the way our customers train. Some markdowns are a cost of doing business. So, if you know, don't hit your sell throughs or don't fell through a hundred percent of everything, which no one really does. Yes, you will have to incur a mark down. And you can still have a healthy business if you sell through those markdowns in a shorter amount of time. So, for markdowns, you may only have four weeks to kind of sell through at first Mark down before you have to take other steps, but you can still have a healthy business. Retailers build markdowns instead of plans. So, they build in an amount of money that they want to incur in markdown costs.

The issue comes when you are going above that number. And then you are kind of eating into your margin and not making your total financial goals overall. 

Christopher Lacy: So those analytics you're looking at outside of markdowns and actually I guess, inclusive of markdowns and margin. And so, you look at these analytics and you're approaching your next season that you have to go into. 

And so here you are, you're sitting with a ton of analytics, the type of meeting I'm going to throw this out here that you have, when you're trying to make decisions, it's called an open to buy. Right. 

Meisha Brown: Yeah.

Christopher Lacy: Or as we used to, I think when there were, there were moments, it was called pre-strat meetings and things like that?

Meisha Brown: Yeah, you're talking my language now.

Christopher Lacy:  So, you have to strategize what's going to happen financially and what you are going to buy into that you saw at a market appointment or that you saw at a show and those are always two things. I do want to highlight that for our listeners is that yes, there is the show that happens, but then there's always a market appointment where you go and really sit down with the vendor and go through the line.

What I want to ask you is you have all these analytics and you also are a Buyer and you have instinct. When do you let things take over and the analytics subside from what happened before, and when do you, you know, how you straddle that line? Because sometimes to be honest with you, I've seen it in certain retailers where they're like this sweater sold really well last season.

So, we're going to buy it again this season and you know what, we're going to buy it again next season until the wheels roll off. 

Meisha Brown: So, usually that third time that's when you've made the mistake in my experience. 

Christopher Lacy: So, tell me about when do you let your instinct take over analytics? 

Meisha Brown: So, you know, it's a fine balance, obviously, between the analytics and the instinct.

For me personally, I always start with instinct because when you're in a market appointment and you've gone to your fashion show, right, you've seen the show, you've seen all the glitz and glamour. And then you get into market and it's time to work. And to your point, just quickly about the fashion show in the market appointment.

A lot of times what you see in the market appointment is very different than what came down the runway, because the runway show is about a show. You know, it's, it's putting on a show with things that are probably not wearable for everyday life. So, you'll get a version of that in market that is actually something people can actually buy and wear.

So, when you're in that market appointment and you're viewing the new collection, you want to feel excited about it, about what you're buying. And that's your instinct that kicks in and you know, wanting to say, oh my God, this is amazing. And you know, at that point, you know, your designer, you know, their strengths, you know, their weaknesses.

So, you know what's great, you know, coming from them. So that's where the instinct comes in. And then after that, you want to definitely take the analytics into account because we can't just all be buyers based on our instinct. There are numbers behind it. So, you have to look at what's sold in the past. Where do the numbers show opportunity? And am I buying into that opportunity? What is my budget? You know, there is no unlimited budget as much as people would like to believe that. It's a lot of times the budgets are very, very tight. So, you may see a rack of 25 things that you're like, these would be cool.

Great for my sororities are amazing, but your budget is only enough for 10 things. So then you have to make that decision on, you know, what 10 things to bring in, or if you want to go to bat with your planning team and fight to get more budget, but you know, if you sign up for more budget, you gotta sell it.

So, for me personally, it is the instinct first and then the analytics, but I don't want to say it that way for every buyer. Some buyers are very focused on the analytics, and they come in and they're like, all right, well, last season I only sold, two outerwear pieces. And they, you know, they only had a 20% sell through.

So, this season I didn't budget for any outerwear. But you may go into and see the collection and like the outerwear looks amazing. It looks completely different from last season. So, you gotta have a fine balance between the two. 

Christopher Lacy: Okay. You, you threw out a word there that now I have to lash onto. You said your planners. Let's talk about this relationship between the buying team and the planning team

Meisha Brown: So, the planning team is a team or person depends on how big your company is. For me my, in my last company, it was one person, who was basically like your right arm. So, you know, I would say one bit of advice or all of you aspiring fashion buyers, befriend your planner, they are a valuable, valuable asset.

So, the planner basically does exactly that they create the plans for this event, and they have to create the plans by department, by brand, by store. And they tell you, okay, this season you have a million dollars to spend, and we're suggesting you spend, you know, 500 in this brand and 500 in that brand.

And this is how it will break down by store. It's a guideline by no means is it a, you have to buy it this way. But it is a guideline and it's a good guideline to start with. You work with your planner, not only for plans, but or inventory management, you know, reviewing stuff to sale, you work with them on assortment planning.

So, depending on your company, you may have a separate assortment planner which is if you have that lucky you, someone who kind of drilled down even to the SKU level. That's probably for like a larger company, I would think like a vertical retailer, like a J crew or something like that.

But planners are great. They're usually, or should be very, very numbers focused, even more so than the buyer. So, they're not really in touch with the product as much. And some points are just because they're interested, but for the most part they're really crunching the numbers for you and with you, you work with them on your open to buy.

I use my planner all the time if I was like you know, I'm, this is my projection. These are my thoughts behind it, but I kind of need a second eye to say like, yes, this makes sense. Or no, this doesn't make sense. So, they are amazing, very, very important partners with you. And I think that they don't get the credit that they probably need.

Cause if you have a great planner, it can make all the difference in the world.  

Christopher Lacy: I wholeheartedly agree, and I think, you know sitting in meetings many times. And I actually, when I was in operations, the planning team was next to us. And so operations and planning talked a lot. And there was a difference in how things would flow depending upon how well, the planning that planner worked with the buyer and how that translated back to the store. At the end of the day, the store was always going to feel the impact of every decision that was made right. So really having an informed planner helps the stores. 

Meisha Brown: Absolutely. I said that when I left Barney's I wanted to just take my planner with me. I still I mean, I'm still in contact with her and I still want to just like whatever company I'm at. I just want to bring her with me. 

Christopher Lacy: Amazing. We love it. We need to get her on a panel with you. And then we all talk this out. 

Meisha Brown: Oh my God. That would be great. 

Christopher Lacy: I wanted to switch gears and I want to talk about, actually, it's not even switching gears because we're talking about relationships between the buyer and the planner. But now I want to talk about a different relationship, which is this relationship with the vendor, or the brand.

And I want you to talk about how do you ensure that there's a positive and beneficial relationship between the buyer and the vendor? Because there's a lot happening. I mean, it's, it's a true. So how did you, how were you successful in that way? 

Meisha Brown: So, I think this is not even just the case for my relationships with vendors, but my relationships across all of my professional partnerships.

I think honesty, transparency and being fair are very, very, very important. You're often faced with having a lot of challenging conversations with your vendors, especially in unprecedented times like this, right? Every conversation I'm having with my accounts is challenging. You know, they're not easy conversations on either side and you have to make some tough decisions.

Christopher Lacy: You know, just to jump in. Talking about challenging conversations. Right now, is an unprecedented time. None of us were expecting it. You've got supply chain, that's been disrupted. You have produced, you have inventory sitting in some location and well, every location can't really move. I mean, only so much can move through its online channels. What are these conversations looking like right now? 

Meisha Brown: They're not fun. They're not fun. I am not going to sugar coat it, but they're not. I think you know, there's obviously a level of understanding on both sides, a level of professional respect. You know, I get it, you know, I already know when I will have a phone call conversation popped up on my outlook, what it's going to be about. I think a lot of how the conversation goes I try to start the conversation off and set the tone. Because if you set the tone, then that really helps with how the rest of the conversation will go. Doesn't mean that everybody's going to get what they want.

It just means that we're going to, you know, we're going to work together in some way or another, even if I don't have answers for you today. So, I think that's the part of being honest and transparent. You know, like my honesty right now is I don't know what I can do to help, but I'll try to figure it out and get back to you.

That's just beyond like, you can do nothing but respect that. Right. And understand my position. This, like I said, it's unprecedented, this isn't something anyone stand for. This is something that is impacting every level of retail from the consumer to the stores, to the wholesaler, to the manufacturer. I've never seen anything like this.

And I don't think, most people have. And I've been through obviously a bankruptcy. I went through a recession, and I can't say that either of those things were as disastrous as it and that's what it seems like right now. I think, you know, there will be a light at the end of the tunnel. We're hearing that China is rebounding, which is really, really great news.

But right now, we're in the thick of it. And so, we are having challenging conversations, but, you know, with this situation and any other business you know, relationships that I have, I still really hold tight to always being honest, always being transparent and trying to be as fair as possible. And that's gotten me this far. 

Christopher Lacy: That's amazing. And I think to your point, that goes far beyond just the vendor buyer relationship. I feel like that's just you know what, if you want to learn how to navigate life and navigate it well, but that's some great advice to take with you. I think what you know, when we talk about conversations with vendors though, and not even relative to just unstable times or uncharted territory, there's a few things that we used to talk about, you know, you and I, when I was running that main floor, we were working for a large business. You and I, so we spoke a lot, but there was something that we would talk about, which was productivity and sales per square foot. So, I want one of you to talk about, so why is that important and how is, why is that involved in a decision-making process? When you're revealing of vendor or designer's performance.

Meisha Brown: So, it's important first to understand the concept. And I'm not sure, you know, if the listeners can truly understand the concept. It's very simple, though. It is how much sales are you doing per square footage of the space that you have. So, you know, if you have a space that 10 by 10, are you doing a hundred dollars per square foot or are you only doing $5 per square foot?

And that number, you know, the average of that number can change based on the category that you're talking about. Obviously more expensive items are going to have a higher dollars per square foot, less expensive items will have less amount dollars per square foot. So, I think from the buying side, that definitely was important because it was a lot of conversations that you were having with vendors about floor moves and vendors are always fighting for its space.

I want more, I want more, one more. Everyone wants more. So that was always your starting point when you wanted to. Tell them, no, you can't have more because your dollars per square foot are not meeting the floor average or yes, you absolutely should have more because you're squeaky tight in more space.

If you have more space, you can do more business. Because theoretically that's the thought process. So that's why it was important. I think even more so on the store level, it's important because like you said, when you were running that main floor, you are the expert of that floor. You know, we work together all the time and I'm not on the floor as a buyer.

You're not on the floor. I mean, I'm lucky if I got there once a week. So, I relied on you and any of my store partners to tell me, you know, like, you know, Hey, this brand is looking pretty tight. I have a lot of clients coming through here shopping and it always looks a mess. We got a new delivery and it's squeezed.

It looks crazy. I need like, can we talk about a formula because floor moves, especially on the main floor, we're always very political. Oh my God, dude, like move. It wasn't her bag from one wall to the next and people were like flipping out. So.

Christopher Lacy: I mean, I feel like, one of the things we probably talked about the most were adjacencies, I don't know that meaning people understand how crazy it is in the sense that there were times it was like, no, that brand can't be across from that brand.

And this designer can't be next to this designer ‘cause they will lose their mind if they're next to them. And you'll be like, where am I putting the, you know, we would go, it was taking us three weeks to work out a map. 

Meisha Brown: Politics of retail is probably another thing that people don't realize, especially with designer brands, is unreal.

There are so many brands that it's all about image and that boils down to even where they're positioned on your floor. So, God forbid you put, you know, some high-end designer brand by some new brand that doesn't have much exposure yet. And, you know, it's kind of up and coming and no one knows who they are yet. And they're like flipping out. 

Christopher Lacy: Your goal is always new client acquisition. So, if you put the new hot designer next to an established brand, if they're kind of the right, like that mentality could work out really well. And you know, we used to have this conversation where I'm like, we gotta put this person next to this person.

Meisha Brown: And a lot of times we do. 

Christopher Lacy: We do, we'd be like, I don't know who moved that there were norms that came at night. 

So, you know, and talking about that part about sales per square foot, let's talk about the third relationship you have, which is your relationship with the store line team, which you talked about before was really important to you. But even more so when it comes about the store line relationship, do you feel that the merchandise selection needs to be based on regional geography. And is that important or should it every store carry all the same thing? 

Meisha Brown: Well that's easy. Every store doesn't have all the same customer, so no, I definitely don't think every store should have all the same thing. I think that it should be a version of, so as a buyer, your challenge with creating an assortment that represents the brand, but also one that caters to your specific clientele.

And you know, I'm not even saying, you know, it needs to change within like the same city. You know, we have a New York assortment, you have a New York assortment. It's more so, by region. So, New York is not going to have the same assortment as location in the South. The south is not going to have the same, the same assortment as some store in California.

In California is not going to have the same assortment as New York because the climate is different, number one. The customer is different, you know, and there's some general gender generalizations that everyone makes. And a lot of them are true, you know, like in the South it's more lady and they, you know, maybe like to dress up a little more in California, it's more laid-back casual in New York it's everything. Everybody wears black. You know, those aren't a hundred percent true, but to an extent, some of some of those generalizations are true. And so, if you're buying a collection, the great thing is you're able to make different assortments. So, if the collection is good, if the designer has done a good job in creating a collection, they will be thinking about those things as well. Seasonality, different clients where they sell best catering to those different clients and you, if you're the buyer, you're able to create an assortment for each of those different markets. 

Christopher Lacy: You know, it's always been a challenge with some retailers where they always wanted it to feel like it was always the same or that it should look the same in every store.

And, you get into trouble with inventory even that way. Right? Because now you've got too much inventory across your network, because you wanted the exact same things in every single store. And the story can't be the same, but the men could be the same, right? 

Meisha Brown: Yeah. Yup. The message can be the same. Exactly. If you're representing a brand well, then the message will be the same. And I'm lucky in my experience, I've worked at companies that do understand that and they do want to have somewhat of a differentiated assortment per region. And I think bigger companies, the more support you have, like I talked about in the assortment planner, the more support you have, the more that they support that idea.

So, I remember at Saks, we have we ranked it. When I was at Saks, I think there were about 60 something doors. And we ranked them like a store B source C store D door. And that was not only based on their performance, but based on the region that they were in. So, I would do my AA assortment, which would look one way and I would do my B assortment, which looked another way and so on and so forth. And I worked with my planner actually on that. 

Christopher Lacy: Right. So, we talked a little bit, earlier about how this particular crisis is something that we never experienced before. So, it's really hard to strategize through it. But what I want to ask you is, do you think that this will change how we consume goods as a society? And in what way? 

Because, you know, when we talk about doing a buy based on geography and we talk about sell through and markdowns and full price selling here, we are in a spot where you have, I mean, where we would normally be fast approaching sale period right now, right. With new deliveries, have full price set to start trickling in. So now the cadence is often a way, we don't know what mark down season might look like. 

Meisha Brown: It might just be the rest of the year Mark down year. 

Christopher Lacy: And that's what I want to talk about. Do you think that maybe we're not getting a customer who's going to be paying full price the rest of the year? 

Meisha Brown: So that's a hard question to answer only. Well, first off, the first part of your question, I think that'd be silly to think that this won't change how we consume the, I think it absolutely will change how we consume goods. The part of your question that I can say can't answer is that I don't even think we can begin to understand how this will change, possibly until stores reopened, and kind of, you know, we get back to some level of normalcy. Do I think that it is one to be just a year of sale?

That all depends on when this is over. That's the hard part, like in the beginning, I think at least from my perspective, it was like a two week type of like best case scenario. That two weeks have now moved to, you know, them through the month of April as our best-case scenario. In a tie, if you talk to different companies, they have different, you know, some people are just writing off the entire spring season and saying, okay, back, we'll get back to business in August, hopefully back to some level of business in August.

So, because we don't really know when this is going to end, it's hard to say, what the impact will be on the full year. I think if we do get back to some sort of business in August. Maybe we will see from some level of full price sales going into, you know, fall and people, whether it's changing back, and people are wanting to actually buy a new jacket or a new pair of boots.

But, it just really all depends on when this ends. If we somehow get back to some level of business from, you know, May that's our typical sale cadence, and it's kind of even though, technically it's the beginning of summer, you know, it's the end of summer shopping. And to that point, I actually, what I do hope will change out of all of this is that maybe they will shift the fashion calendar a bit.

I know there have been talks in, in years prior about how the fashion calendar is just completely off. I mean, we start shipping spring and spring goods in January, February and fall goods in, or sorry, spring goods in November, December actually. Cause there's a resort. Yeah. And then fall goods in May, June, which makes no sense in terms of, you know, the season, 

Christopher Lacy: It no sense now, in the terms of it over the last 10 years, how people buy goods or accessories. We just, there, there isn't that thing where you buy things months out before you plan on wearing them to like, I want to buy it and I want to wear it now. And Donna Karen, Oh, for years I had always said, you know, it needed to be a buy now wear now 

Meisha Brown: They overuse that phrase so much. And it still hasn't. It still hasn't changed, you know, buy now wear now, buy now wear now, but like if we're still on this same fashion calendar, and I'm hoping that with this, maybe that will shift the calendar event also, you know, with this new millennial clients, you know, they want it and they want it now and they want it immediate.

They want to get the immediate, I can't think of the word, but they want it immediately. Yeah, they want it now. So I, like you said, I don't see them oh well, I'm gonna buy this coat and wait to wear it for three months. That's just not how people shop anymore. So, I do hope that, you know, it doesn't really impact eyewear as much, I'm lucky with that because it's, you know, season-less in a way. But with, you know, everything else from shoes to ready to wear, all of those things like that, they're still on this very off calendar from real life. So maybe that will be one positive out of this whole, Corona craziness that I'm calling it.

Christopher Lacy: Yeah. Cause that's exactly what it is. So, you know, what I would, I would hope happens from this is. We do see more people moving back into stores because they'll want that store experience again. But we'll see what, and hopefully that's what happens. So, I want to ask you, you know, as we close out, what advice could you give to a designer who wants to get in and get picked up by a retailer? What were the things you look for? 

Meisha Brown: Yeah. So first I would say that as a designer, you should really have a realistic view of your brand and how it fits in with that retailer. So, working at Barney's, I had so many designers come to me and say that they were just dying to be in Barney's, dying to be at Barney's.

And then when I was her align, you know, I would think to myself, this isn't for the Barney's customer at all. And I, you know, would ask them, well, what other brands do you see yourself aligned with? And you see yourself sitting next to, and they would either say brands that Barney didn't even carry, or they wouldn't even really know who their competition was.

And in the back of my head, although I couldn't say it, I would be thinking like, you should go show this to Bloomingdale's or Macy's, or, you know Saks. But you know, as a buyer, I can, I can never really say that. But I think, you know, having a real view of your brands, I mean, look, Barney's doesn't even exist anymore.

So, all of those people dying to be in Barney's, I'm sure they found other places to be. And so, I think if you have a realistic view of where your brand should be positioned, that's where you're going to succeed, you're going to see the most success. So, I think, you know, that's definitely one of the main things that I would say from a designer perspective, that they should really have.

Christopher Lacy: All of our listeners to want to be a buyer.

Meisha Brown: Yeah. So, I would say number one, you should really learn and understand the numbers and the meaning behind the numbers. At the end of the day, you are running a business and it is about the financials and it is something that you do have to learn. And a lot of it you're learning on the job. This is not something that you learned just in.

You know, regular, I'm sure at Parsons, we are teaching it. But, you know, I went to school at a California state university and I did not learn retail math at all. So I really had to learn through my training program and on the job, but I really did focus in on really learning it and understanding the numbers because you may be able to calculate them, but if you can't speak to them and what's going on behind them, then it really does you no good. So, if they really focus on that, I'd say always foster positive relationships with vendors and everyone that you work with. It is a very small industry and people move around. So, the vendor that you worked with at one brand that you just couldn't stand, and they were so mean may pop up and be your planner or your you know, work at another brand that you now buy for at another company. So, it's a small industry and I've seen people go many different places. And, so I think, you know, even if you don't love, you know, someone, you don't have to be everybody's best friend, just make sure you continue to support a positive relationship.

And the last bit of advice I would say is it will be observed bits and pieces from people that you can learn from. And that could be some people are great presenters. Some people are really strong with the numbers. Somebody may have a naturally good taste level. Cause you can sort of absorb, absorb and learn yourself, to improve yourself.

And it may not just be a manager. It could be counterpart. It could be a cross functional team member or even a direct report. I've learned a lot from my direct reports. So I think just observing and being open to learning different things, to develop yourself as a, not only as a buyer, but as a professional, I think are really important.

Christopher Lacy: Awesome. Well, Meisha Brown. How can I, how can our listeners get in touch with you or find out what you're doing in the future?

Meisha Brown:  So, you can find me on LinkedIn under Meisha Brown, Kering Eyewear and that's probably the easiest way to get in contact with me. 

Christopher Lacy: Fantastic. This has been a fantastic conversation. I probably could talk. for hours on the merchandising and just, you know, regale over previous and past scenario. But I want to thank you so much for taking out the time to join us, to be a bone. I know it's a crazy, hectic time right now. So, for you to, to carve out this moment for us at Retail Revolution is really appreciated. So, thank you so much.

Meisha Brown: You're so welcome. Thank you for having me. I enjoyed our conversation. 

Christopher Lacy: We can get you back again and hopefully in person 

Meisha Brown: After all of this is over. 

Christopher Lacy: Take care. 

Meisha Brown: All right. Bye.

Joshua Williams: Thank you for listening to this episode of Retail Revolution. A very special thank you to everyone who has helped make this podcast possible, our guests, our students and fellow faculty at Parsons School of Design, especially in such an extraordinary and unprecedented time. Our theme music was composed by Spencer Powell.

Be well and stay tuned for our next episode.

www.RetailRevolutionPodcast.com